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Gilgamer

Of Noble Blood

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If this was suggested somewhere in the "First Look: Knight Powers.."  thread I apologize.

 

Suggestion:

Not sure if it's possible but I thought it would be cool if this power for the Knight when used in conjunction with the active block would create a gravity well around the knight that pulls on projectiles (only) so that arrows and magic would bend towards the Knight.  The Knight would have to use this judiciously to avoid taking too many projectiles or making it too easy for the enemy to focus fire on them, but if a large percentage of the damage was negated or reflected by the blocking it would be a good way to keep ranged opponents from firing past the knight at softer targets, and would make interesting use of the physics engine, in a similar fashion to the Leap Slam.

 

Not sure if it's historically accurate, but you would think that a knight of noble blood might be a high value target (someone whose defeat might demoralize their opponent) and the enemy make give orders to mark them for a focus fire type assault from range if possible.  

 

Quote from aforementioned thread:

The next power, Of Noble Blood looks simple on the surface; it’s an AoE shout.  Designing this one has been a bit tricky, however.  It somehow keeps ending up with an AoE debuff on it, but then we play it and remember, “Oh yeah, debuffs are primarily a support role thing.” We pull it off and make it into an AoE buff. Then we go, “Oh yeah, AoE buffs are primarily a support role thing,” and move it back to an AoE debuff.

 

You can see the loop we are caught in. It did spend some time as a self-attack power buff, with a corresponding self-armor debuff, but we didn’t love that, either.  We aren’t exactly sure where this one will land. We are pretty sure of the name, however, which we took from the original Crowfall class design where characters would promote from Noble to Knight. (Easter egg!)


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Someone has been reading the stormlight archive. I see.

 

Though I don't see much point in calling for historical accuracy in this regard. Most fantasy stories make a point of making spell casters a priority. Which sure was not the case in the olden times, but that is because the world is boring and down to earth

More on the gameplay side of things though, I think this is a really bad idea. It reminds me a bit of SWTOR's protection system. Where a tank picks a target to protect and soaks up a large sum of damage in the targets place. This is undeniably a excellent mechanic and I'd love for crowfall to have something like it. With it I often found 2v5 fights possible. We'd often not win, but we were able to hold a large number of the enemy occupied, while our forces struck elsewhere.

 

That is however a buff, something that doesn't work until the enemy target the protected individual. And if the target is a healer your faced with the difficult choice of either going against a buffed up healer or a tank with support. You can be in a fight with over thirty people and the protection in question might never come into play. However if you were to cry out. "Notice me senpai!" And all attacks suddenly was drawn to you, you'd just instantly die, because it automatically focus the enemy.

 

Now martyrdom is certainly not unheard of and in pvp a second can be the difference between victory and defeat. Maybe you'd want to die in your teams stead? But then there is also the question of obvious abuse. Where one guild hires another to run in naked, free from the risk of losing any gear as they all cry. "NOTICE ME SENPAI!!!" Forcing the enemy to kill the narutards one by one, while the true threat is casually tearing down the castle walls.

Edited by Acidstrider

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Meryk - Member

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This actulaly seems like a really fun way to handle taunts

 

1: the attacker doesnt feel bad for missing, because it was the knight who activated an ability

2: raises the skill level of the knight because he has to time it for when its aimed at his/her/the walruss squishy teammembers

3:builds on the whole tank thing

4: makes windowed opportunities, if your opponent knight just used his ability, thn you can aim whatever super OP skill you ahve at his squishes, btu if he doesnt, you have to be carefull

 

That's a cool power, but the name should be changed to "Notice me Senpai!" 

i dont see how this can not be done

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1: the attacker doesnt feel bad for missing, because it was the knight who activated an ability

 

The idea that the degree of damage to a player's self-esteem, based on whose fault it is that his attack missed its target, should be a factor at any level of design priority is mindblowingly misguided.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Yeah I think they (ACE) shouldn't get caught up in trying to hard lock mechanics and roles. Can have certain things overlapping but still maintain Archtype uniqueness IMO. Having this ability be a buff self and AoE short term sounds like the best fit. Its just one or two ability's like that it won't take away from support classes that are built around buff/debuffs I think.

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Shout ideas:

  1. I like the OP's idea of it being a projectile magnet.  The CD and duration will throttle it.
  2. AoE make everyone face you.  Taunt on NPCs, just orientation on PCs.  It's enough to have some utility in PvP by disrupting player groove.
  3. AoE deafness.  Give the flashbang effect to PCs.  Slow attack speed of NPCs.
  4. Create a circle on the ground that you get stamina regen/damage mitigation as long as you stand in it.  Size and decay speed throttles it.  PCs can engage or draw you out of it.
  5. AoE cleanse of disabling or knockdown effects on allies.  Help your buddies up.  Hey, didn't you see me on the ground?
  6. Reveal hidden enemies in a small radius.  No hit and vanish on a knight!
  7. Empower your next block or strike.  Block - drains attacker's stam, Strike - breaks a block, etc.
  8. Makes you larger so you can get in the way of attackers more.

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@ClockworkWetwork:/

 

I especially find #8 interesting, and it solves a dilemma that has been getting under the skin of some of the physics purists who rail against the idea of Knights having greater mass while blocking.  If the Knight had a buff that allowed them to grow larger while holding their block, it would only be logical that there mass would increase proportionally.  For anyone not familiar with the Square (^2) Cube (^3) law, when a solid object is scaled by a factor it's surface area increases by that factor^2 and their volume (and likewise their mass if density stays the same) by the same factor^3.  A six foot tall knight with a weight of 100Kg/220lbs, that grew to 12 feet would have a mass of 800kg/1760lbs.  Even in not so severe a growth; if the Knight grew to 9ft (50% taller) their weight would increase to (1.5^3*100kg)  or 337.5kg/742.5lbs.

 

Many games have had effects that simply scaled the character model up or down  (WoW comes to mind) but mostly for a cosmetic result to accompany a buff or debuff; I can't think of any games that are physics based or had real character collision where you could scale up or down, it could create some interesting gameplay.  Granted it should probably be coupled with some serious drawbacks; it could consume mana and stamina simultaneously, root the Knight, and would obviously make them a much easier target to hit with range attacks.  Likewise, to make it feel like less of a gimmick I think you would need to have several physics heavy abilities spread throughout the varying archetypes and coming up with enough unique abilities that won't over tax the physics engine and allow for some emergent gameplay will be a interesting challenge. 


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Good thought.  If you take that idea further, you can create a self-limiting, stacking effect for your shout.

 

Activate once to grow to 150%, increase mass proportionately, cut movement speed.

Activate again while the grow is active to grow to 200% size and become immobile.

 

That gives you choice and versatility while being self-limiting.  The limit being that now you can't move, and you're eating a lot of damage in your hitboxes.

 

"That knight is in the way.  I can't get a clean shot on the druid.  Alright, burn him down.  I'll go flank them."

 

For PvP tanking I look at the tank mechanics from Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning where a tank would choose a buddy and take a % of their damage when in close proximity.  That gave utility to tanks in PvP, but it was tab-targeted.  If we're looking to do something more freeform here, putting your hitboxes in the way can serve that purpose as long as your allies are quick enough to get behind you.

 

Clever.  I like the idea of just standing in the way as an additional combat tactic.

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Good thought.  If you take that idea further, you can create a self-limiting, stacking effect for your shout.

 

Activate once to grow to 150%, increase mass proportionately, cut movement speed.

Activate again while the grow is active to grow to 200% size and become immobile.

 

That gives you choice and versatility while being self-limiting.  The limit being that now you can't move, and you're eating a lot of damage in your hitboxes.

 

"That knight is in the way.  I can't get a clean shot on the druid.  Alright, burn him down.  I'll go flank them."

 

For PvP tanking I look at the tank mechanics from Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning where a tank would choose a buddy and take a % of their damage when in close proximity.  That gave utility to tanks in PvP, but it was tab-targeted.  If we're looking to do something more freeform here, putting your hitboxes in the way can serve that purpose as long as your allies are quick enough to get behind you.

 

Clever.  I like the idea of just standing in the way as an additional combat tactic.

Actually using an ally to create line of sight issues for your opponents would be a pretty novel idea.


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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How about:

The knight gains a stack of damage reduction for each ally behind him in a cone and refills their stamina, this ability has a two second channel, beginning with a "call" and firing a 'response' when complete.

 

The knight activates the ability, raises his weapon behind a blocking shield and cries "GET BEHIND ME!" to notify other players that he is setting up for some uber-tanking. Players (ideally) take cover to his rear when they hear this, and for each target the skill hits when it fires off, the knight gains a stack of DR and the allies, emboldened by his noble and heroic distplay, regain some stamina. The knight cries "For GLORY" when it fires, and all of his allies respond "GLORY!" in kind or something so it's easy to tell relatively how many were hit. At this ppint the knight is free to dig in and defend or charge valiantly in to battle, having already done some protectin'

 

The knight is considered blocking while in this channel, and this blocking state costs no stamina, and as such this ability can still be useful to save stamina when soaking large hits even if the knight cancels it before it completes.

 

This prevents the knight from using "bottom toward target" support, as he'd have to either be out of position behind his allies, or require the people he's attempting to defend to run in FRONT of him and STAY THERE for a bit, and as such would only work properly in massed combat if he was truly being noble and knightly.

 

Thus, it's not a "buff" in the sense you'd have on a support character, but rather an ability that reinforces the unique role the knight already possesses, as a front line defender. Further knight buffs could function in a similar fashion and be a unique trait of the class.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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How about:

The knight gains a stack of damage reduction for each ally behind him in a cone and refills their stamina, this ability has a two second channel, beginning with a "call" and firing a 'response' when complete.

 

The knight activates the ability, raises his weapon behind a blocking shield and cries "GET BEHIND ME!" to notify other players that he is setting up for some uber-tanking. Players (ideally) take cover to his rear when they hear this, and for each target the skill hits when it fires off, the knight gains a stack of DR and the allies, emboldened by his noble and heroic distplay, regain some stamina. The knight cries "For GLORY" when it fires, and all of his allies respond "GLORY!" in kind or something so it's easy to tell relatively how many were hit. At this ppint the knight is free to dig in and defend or charge valiantly in to battle, having already done some protectin'

 

The knight is considered blocking while in this channel, and this blocking state costs no stamina, and as such this ability can still be useful to save stamina when soaking large hits even if the knight cancels it before it completes.

 

This prevents the knight from using "bottom toward target" support, as he'd have to either be out of position behind his allies, or require the people he's attempting to defend to run in FRONT of him and STAY THERE for a bit, and as such would only work properly in massed combat if he was truly being noble and knightly.

 

Thus, it's not a "buff" in the sense you'd have on a support character, but rather an ability that reinforces the unique role the knight already possesses, as a front line defender. Further knight buffs could function in a similar fashion and be a unique trait of the class.

I like this idea, and similar ideas that encourage allies to fall in behind the knight, I would however like to see more abilities that make direct use of the physics engine and character collision, assuming the engine is robust enough to pull them off w/o a major performance hit. 


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Sure, but not every ability screams "PHYSICS!"

 

The physics engine is at the core of what makes a knight a knight already, his mass and player collision mechanics are crucial to his playstyle, and his current phsics altering abilities are pretty theme appropriate. I'd wager that the leap skill didn't originally have an AoE pull associated with it at all, and it was added to make the stomp, which is actually a very thematic expression of his trademark bulk, function better after some testing found it lackluster.

 

A projectile gravity well just doesn't seem thematic for the knight when you've got a range of actual magic support based characters that would fill that kind of an ability role much more effectively and believably. The knight's job isn't field physics effects, it's becoming the wall that covers everyone else. I think his current supporting physics abilities are more than enough for him to do that job appropriately. If the knight wants to block a projectile I'd expect he did it by moving himself in front of it, not the other way around. While it would definatly be effective to bend incoming fire toward your tank, it just seems to me that sounds like something in the realm of magic assisted teamwork rather than something a knight can just do himself.

 

I'd love to see a druid or confessor or something with a ranged castable version of that sort of well ability though, able to hit enemy or ally as needed. Use it on your knight to help deflect fire, or an enemy target to assist.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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How about:

The knight gains a stack of damage reduction for each ally behind him in a cone and refills their stamina, this ability has a two second channel, beginning with a "call" and firing a 'response' when complete.

 

The knight activates the ability, raises his weapon behind a blocking shield and cries "GET BEHIND ME!" to notify other players that he is setting up for some uber-tanking. Players (ideally) take cover to his rear when they hear this, and for each target the skill hits when it fires off, the knight gains a stack of DR and the allies, emboldened by his noble and heroic distplay, regain some stamina. The knight cries "For GLORY" when it fires, and all of his allies respond "GLORY!" in kind or something so it's easy to tell relatively how many were hit. At this ppint the knight is free to dig in and defend or charge valiantly in to battle, having already done some protectin'

 

The knight is considered blocking while in this channel, and this blocking state costs no stamina, and as such this ability can still be useful to save stamina when soaking large hits even if the knight cancels it before it completes.

 

This prevents the knight from using "bottom toward target" support, as he'd have to either be out of position behind his allies, or require the people he's attempting to defend to run in FRONT of him and STAY THERE for a bit, and as such would only work properly in massed combat if he was truly being noble and knightly.

 

Thus, it's not a "buff" in the sense you'd have on a support character, but rather an ability that reinforces the unique role the knight already possesses, as a front line defender. Further knight buffs could function in a similar fashion and be a unique trait of the class.

Sounds solid.  I really like the idea of an ability that targets allies and, instead of buffing them ("that's support's job"), it self-buffs the knight.  Have friends behind you, you get tougher!  Clever!  The can open a new class of triggers: what your teammates are doing.  This trigger brings all kinds of interactive comboing that rewards teamwork.

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