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budkin

First Look: Confessor Powers - Official discussion thread

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Great post.  going forward, it would be really helpful if you guys would give feedback like this -- tell us what your high level design goal is, rather than getting hung up in the details.

 

Todd

ACE

 

That is where CF is currently.

 

For me I'd like to see less resilience on stacking of ONE specific element (sin) to be great at DPS because that narrows the tactics. Unless the promotions give us more variance to either 1) build sin through other means or 2) give the Confessor options to effect the battlefield without the need of a stacking mechanic. Because if you have to reset every time just to rebuild all of your DPS combos up again then its like one giant cool down for the class. 

Edited by Keaggan

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PS: On a side not, did anyone else look at this:

conf_fx_darker.jpgAnd think "Fire Bending"!

 

Definitely looks like fire bending :D.

Imagine if the Frostweaver (Frost Bender) was able to basicly do a water/ice bending, that would be tones of fun.

 

Think of all the possibilities with disciplines... Drunken Phoenix Discipline? 

iroh-breathing-fire.png


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Am I reading this right?

 

 

So potentially, one could deflect a ranged fireball by hitting it with another fireball?

 

That is exactly how I read it too.  :D

 

But not only with another projectile, but imagine the knight blocking and possible deflecting these too. The normal fireballs explode on impact, but deflecting could be very cool. Maybe the Knight can deflect projectiles with the Shield Spin, an active ability. This might be a bit too much on the physics front to calculate though, but we can always hope!  ^_^


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5 second iframes

3 second stuns

15 second snare

aim assists

 

 

are you kidding us?

No CC in a skill based game would make it more skill based because then you can run around dodging with sprint and blocking. Instead of being CC'd for free skillless hits after getting hit with a CC.

 

Slows also have the same effect as CC, makes it much more easy to hit.

 

If its hard to aim, that's great long as its not impossible (more skill). Fireball can have on impact like a little bit bigger aoe than its size while flying through the air (can hit the ground by them to hit them the farther it is from the target, the less damage it deals. Instead of soft aiming which makes it less skill cause its less aiming (purpose of my reticle friend <3).

 

It also makes combat more engaging. =D

Edited by kyratos

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It MIGHT just end up that SOME powers stay with manual aim for the purpose of siege warfare and are more unweildy if used against players.

 

Shouldn't it be the other way around? SOME abilities *could* have soft-targeting, and they should be (optional and) way less powerful than those with manual aim. Even better, make us choose to use any ability on manual or soft aiming, with the latter dealing 1% of the damage. :lol:

 

Seriously, don't numb down the combat.

 

More than anything, don't use physics to explain what you're doing if:

1. Projectiles don't have bullet drop (aka, no gravity), which also means that they have to magically disappear after X meters;

2. Projectiles are magically going to change direction to follow a target (like in any other MMO);

3. Iframes are ~5 seconds long**

 

** We weren't saying that Confessor looked OP, I couldn't care less if she has 5 HPs while Centaur has 500000.

Iframes allow players to tactically avoid projectiles, only if the duration is ~1 sec. Otherwise anyone can.

If anything, make the cooldown low so she can use it more often.

 

I guess right now it's something like 5 seconds duration and ~45 (30-60) seconds cooldown.

It would be much better with 0.75 sec duration and 5 sec cooldown (just to make a point, I am not dictating numbers).

Which means more invulnerability time overall, but it does require skill to use.

 

Same logic goes with snares and stuns.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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You guys are doing an excellent job with the class design. 

 

I like how varied the classes are. No more of "every class can do everything". 

 

Classes need to fill a particular niche/role well but also have weakness that are other classes strengths. 

 

Variety is the spice of life. 

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Our primary concern with playability right now is targeting. How hard will it be to hit a (player) target with her powers? I know it’s shocking, but players don’t like to stand still in PvP. We’re still experimenting with targeting. If we find it is too difficult to play ranged, we have a few systems we may need to add or augment, like ‘sticky’ targets, ranged assist or some manner of soft locking system. We aren’t quite sure what the right mix will be yet, but we feel comfortable that we’ll eventually find a solution that works well.

 

The more skill / FPS based the targeting system is, the better IMO. 

 

Please no target locking, hard targeting, tab targeting, etc. 

 

At they very least I'd expect a "Tera" like aiming system which is what I believe you're aiming for. 

 

If I had it my way I'd push for a "Darkfall" like aiming system where it's true FPS aim but I realize that may be difficult to implement and not appeal to the masses. 

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Great post.  going forward, it would be really helpful if you guys would give feedback like this -- tell us what your high level design goal is, rather than getting hung up in the details.

 

Todd

ACE

 

I don't think there should be any type of aiming assistance, beyond soft targeting, for ranged abilities. Otherwise, you may as well put tab targeting in the game. 


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Guildmaster, LotD

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Two things I just can't wrap my mind around this early in development...

 

People arguing balance.  Really... we've got the beginning stages of two classes identified... and we're already debating balance issues?  It's not time for that yet.

 

and

 

"In real life"... Stop.  Just stop.  Oh in real life you don't get stunned like that.  In real life, it would have a 12.36723% arc...

 

In real life, you can't launch a fireball from your hands or take a sword hit to the face and live.

 

It's not real life.

 

 

As for the actual point of the thread, i.e. general feedback on the initial concepts of the Confessor.

 

Looks.  Damned.  Sweet.


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Chapter Leader

 

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I don't think there should be any type of aiming assistance, beyond soft targeting, for ranged abilities. Otherwise, you may as well put tab targeting in the game. 

That's an awfully large logic leap you took there imo. Having things like aim assist and soft targeting are not the same as going all the way to hard locked tab targeting. Having aim assist and even soft targeting would still mean we have action combat. But if they go all the way to hard locking then its no longer action combat but just another wow combat clone. Its not at all black and white like that. See Blairs post earlier in the thread where he explains the spectrum and why they would need to go in a certain direction.

Edited by pang

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Such an interesting discussion about confessor.

All i have to say hype's so real about it, everyone here's going try to play with fire ball ?  ^_^


SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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Thinking back to pretty much every PvP game I have played, dating all the way back to UO, I can honestly say, I really hated stun/paralyze whatever else you wanted to call it that made me stand there unable to do anything while other players pounded me into the ground. Very frustrating, very unappealing, and IMO needless.

...

TL:DR

Real Life Stun doesn't make you immobile, it just slows your processing down.

 

SO,

You could implement a stun in a few ways that doesn't leave you completely immobile and unable to react in any way.

 

First option - Stun adds 1-2 second cool down timers to all spells for x amount of time.

2nd option - Stun causes your hotkeys to randomly change positions in the UI for x amount of time.

 

I really like this approach. I understand that total stun/root are useful in games with high HP + healing.

 

In Crowfall it doesn't seem like we would need to root someone endlessly to take down half of his HP, nor incapacitate an healer to finally kill one of the party member.

 

It's hard to judge right now, but overall I really prefer the idea of having partial disabilities and disorientation rather than complete shut down.

 

Being unable to do anything for an extended period of time (or at all) is not something many players enjoy afaik.  :P

Edited by courant101

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In Wildstar they offer(ed) an exit mechanic for any CC. For example: you get disarmed, your weapon drops away from you on the ground. You have a choice: walk to your weapon to pick it up to get your weapon back quicker or wait till the timer runs out (slower) and the weapon returns to you automatically.

 

For every CC they have different exit mechanics. I wouldn't mind something like this in Crowfall too. I agree it's not fun to be locked out of any action while being CC'd. Wildstar solution gives me a choice, take action and get out of it quicker or do do nothing and wait. I like that.


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Is it on the table to be able to control your iframe's duration?  So it can be used as either a defensive or offensive ability.  Or once we cast something are we just stuck with it for the determined duration?

Wait are we talking about a paly bubble or what here?


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I keep seeing skill being mentioned as if it's some sort of self qualifying feature which has to be honored. Difficulty can be fun in the right mixture of mechanisms, but it's not universally fun for everyone, and different kinds of difficulty and emphasis are more fun to some rather than others.

 

Shooting games are not as hard as RTS, you don't have to maintain effective targeting on a moving target to suddenly deliver damage in an RTS, but you have to micro like a beast. And you know, it would be harder if you had to singularly control every single unit, and issue them specific commands to attack, or move, or hold position independently. Instead, there is group unit selection and mixed commands as well as action queing, and auto deployment, and accuracy smoothing, because it's a strategy game, where there is more than enough operational challenge in order to produce an enthralling and challenging strategy, as well as action.

 

There are ways to make a game more difficult, but they do not always result in a more fun game. even if there is a proponent of consumers who claim they'd like something more difficult, or actually would enjoy accuracy challenges more than other forms of difficulty, it doesn't qualify that it's more fun on average. Reading though this games declarations, I've seen more mention of the game identifying it'self as a strategy game than an action game. It is an Action Strategy... MMORPG, competitive... so on so forth, it is not an Arena Shooter, or a hyper shooter, or Warframe, or whatever. So don't declare that it takes more skill, and just imagine that it qualifies as an justification for manual aiming, when it's patently known that accessibility allows the game to be "fun" for more people.

 

ACE declared the basic point that Fun is more important than Realism, and in context it's obvious. I promote many realistic interactions because I feel it would create greater qualities of strategy and be more fun in a strategic manner, that doesn't mean that I blindly assume that all realism is better for the game or more fun, and it also doesn't mean that what I find fun will be universally fun for the most, or enough people. I hope that they will test certain realistic mechanisms to see if they can build a more strategic game, and hope that it is fun as a result, I don't pretend to know that it will be more fun and it has to be done in order for it to be fun, because that's foolish.

 

You can promote a quality of gameplay that you like and that you think would be more fun, but if your just gonna assume that it's more fun to focus on that quality of difficulty, and discount the possibility that it may be broken with other feature priorities or unenjoyable for an adequate audience size, than so be it. Your opinion is represented, in obstinance and chauvinism, hopefully your poorly described quality will find it's way into the game through sheer happenstance, because it certainly won't turn any heads in a pragmatic setting.

 

Qualifying your opinion requires you to acknowledge and respect other peoples preferences and seek a method for the game to be enjoyable for them as well, or at least come up with an intelligent explanation as to why ACE should focus on your preferences rather than other ones, "it's more skillful and skillful gaming is better" is circular logic. Do Better.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

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Is it on the table to be able to control your iframe's duration?  So it can be used as either a defensive or offensive ability.  Or once we cast something are we just stuck with it for the determined duration?

I believe the iframe portion of powers are very short as to not get knocked out of the initial animation/activation.  Lingering effects you are not in iFrame.

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