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oh god pls no

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The first word of that quote is very important. Let me point you towards the word: "If".

 

 

So,

 

 

Is it too difficult to play ranged? I have to admit, I have no clue. Do you? I'm guessing no. No need to be concerned here, I do not see any issue. Not until we know if ranged is too difficult to play anyway. See you in Alpha.

the problem is what if the person calling shots on this decision is terrible at aiming and so are the devs around him and they rush the decision and the sky is falling

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the problem is what if the person calling shots on this decision is terrible at aiming and so are the devs around him and they rush the decision and the sky is falling

 

You can't calling any shots on this until you have actually played the game. And pretty sure ACE doesn't rush any decision based on feedback from one player or dev.

Edited by Canth

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Define "too difficult" please.

 

At what point, does it warrant to include things like aim assists and auto-tracking and stuff?

We're already past hitscan weapons at that point, because we exhausted all other options, like projectile speed increase, projectile size increase, cast time decrease and so on.

 

 

Where does "too difficult" start and the player being a scrub end?

 

Someone please tell me. I can't see it.

 

I think the base line is when no one, at all, can consistently hit with ranged attacks.  And then take a few steps back to where most people cannot consistently hit with ranged attacks.  

 

And then maybe we can call that "too difficult".


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This is the entire reason they are doing an Alpha all about refining combat.

 

If you think the "too difficult to aim" is going to be based on some singular game developer's opinion, then Idk what to tell you.  But I fully expect the multiplayer mode they release for testing in the pre-alpha and alpha phases to define this.  If they find that the vast majority of players are avoiding ranged classes because they aren't effective, then obviously they need to do something.

 

Ultimately, this wasn't even them saying they were going to put any of this in, just that they were willing to consider them if things didn't work.  Is that really something to be concerned about?

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the problem is what if the person calling shots on this decision is terrible at aiming and so are the devs around him and they rush the decision and the sky is falling

Well it's always been kind of the playful jab in these games that the players are better than the people who make the game. Developers admit to that, I am sure ACE would say the same and I am sure they're just as eager as we are to have people in the game, testing and finding out what is and what is not possible.

 

That's where the experience comes in, this is not their first go around

Edited by oberon

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I think the base line is when no one, at all, can consistently hit with ranged attacks.  And then take a few steps back to where most people cannot consistently hit with ranged attacks.  

 

And then maybe we can call that "too difficult".

 

objectively that will never happen. We'll never get to the point of "too difficult" then.

At the very latest as soon as you reach hitscan on most abilities, people will not miss the majority of their attacks anymore.

The average person is not that bad.

 

 

So why do they mention the option then?

Why even think about that case?

 

 

It means the "too difficult" definition is completely arbitrary, because we don't know who sets the standard.

That is what's worrying!!!

Edited by freeze

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objectively that will never happen. We'll never get to the point of "too difficult" then.

At the very latest as soon as you reach hitscan on most abilities, people will not miss the majority of their attacks anymore.

The average person is not that bad.

 

So why do they mention the option then?

Why even think about that case?

 

If I recall correctly, one of their main goals is to "find the fun".  It's possible that hitscan isn't fun.  Maybe an assisted targeting system (whatever that means) is more fun to play with.


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I feel like people are reacting a bit strongly to a statement that starts with an "if" and then lists a few things they "may" try.

Considering SB had all of these awful mechanics and required a bunch of skill to play well and was a poorly made socks load of fun... Make the game playable and make it fun. If there are some mechanics that make this possible I'm not going to lose my mind. I'm not worried if it makes the game less "hardcore."


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Well, I'm extremely happy I've only dumped $5 into the game, if they really implement these things, no way I'm playing.

 

Now, since they are using Tera's combat as a part of the base, why not copy how Tera did their Sorcerer's void pulse skill? Seems perfect.


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Well, I'm extremely happy I've only dumped $5 into the game, if they really implement these things, no way I'm playing.

 

Now, since they are using Tera's combat as a part of the base, why not copy how Tera did their Sorcerer's void pulse skill? Seems perfect.

I think should try to have an open mind and try it before writing it off. Thats even IF they need to change targeting, could be their netcode is good so latency isn't an issue and the way projectiles fly is good enough to hit targets w/o needing any kind of assist.

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I think should try to have an open mind and try it before writing it off. Thats even IF they need to change targeting, could be their netcode is good so latency isn't an issue and the way projectiles fly is good enough to hit targets w/o needing any kind of assist.

 

latency will always be an issue.

It's unavoidable, sadly :(

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I think should try to have an open mind and try it before writing it off. Thats even IF they need to change targeting, could be their netcode is good so latency isn't an issue and the way projectiles fly is good enough to hit targets w/o needing any kind of assist.

 

Yea, if they don't add those things that's great, but if they do add any the quality of the game decreases enormously. I'm not gone yet, but I'm less excited that they are considering falling back on those things instead what other games use to get around it.

 

Way too risky to give them even a nickel right now though.


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After much testing they feel that the freedom isn't working/isn't fun then I feel it's fine for them to try these option to see how it goes.

 

Obviously they aren't going to do it if everything feels right but I think I'f they aren't happy and they wanna test options then give them a chance.

Edited by Cheewy

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Considering SB had all of these awful mechanics and required a bunch of skill to play well

 

I lol'd. Anyone who has convinced themselves SB took actual skill to play did not understand Shadowbane. The game was entirely knowledge based.

Edited by taroskin

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This is just a jarr in delusion that certain contributors have been assuring themself for a while now. Whose that scrub again, the one who wanted to argue all day long how manual targeting was the only valid way for the game to be skilled, Vikingnail should know, he's one of his disciples, the old Tera combat thread.

 

Then ACE confirmed reticles in order for projectiles to work with siege elevations, and all the shooter elitists rejoiced because they guaranteed each other that use of a reticle and hardcore PvP authenticates pure manual aiming.

 

You've deluded yourself, and I told you over and over again that it's impractical. They may yet go with a mostly manual targeting system, but pouting like children for something that was never guaranteed is just childish, it was never even discussed... ever?

 

I realize that it's a bit cruel to let you pine in delusion when they always knew this was a likelihood, but you did this to yourself.

 

Now if you'll stop behaving like spoiled entitled children, you can present your personal preferences and practical ways it would be enjoyable, without spouting a bunch of elitist bull sh!t about how its better and others should acknowledge your taste.

 

Or not, tell me how that works out for you :-/


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This is just a jarr in delusion that certain contributors have been assuring themself for a while now. Whose that scrub again, the one who wanted to argue all day long how manual targeting was the only valid way for the game to be skilled, Vikingnail should know, he's one of his disciples, the old Tera combat thread.

 

Then ACE confirmed reticles in order for projectiles to work with siege elevations, and all the shooter elitists rejoiced because they guaranteed each other that use of a reticle and hardcore PvP authenticates pure manual aiming.

 

You've deluded yourself, and I told you over and over again that it's impractical. They may yet go with a mostly manual targeting system, but pouting like children for something that was never guaranteed is just childish, it was never even discussed... ever?

 

I realize that it's a bit cruel to let you pine in delusion when they always knew this was a likelihood, but you did this to yourself.

 

Now if you'll stop behaving like spoiled entitled children, you can present your personal preferences and practical ways it would be enjoyable, without spouting a bunch of elitist bull sh!t about how its better and others should acknowledge your taste.

 

Or not, tell me how that works out for you :-/

Please refrain from insulting other opinions... let's keep this discussion sincere. 

 

Some of us care a lot that skill matters, others may have different opinions on what skill is,


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It's simple... don't sell me "player skill will matter" and "pvp" if you are actually selling slow combat and aim assist... obviously this is hyperbole... but let's say crowfall launches, and it has slowed down action combat and aim assist, why should any real pvper stick with it at that point when even a game like orcs must die unchained requires more actual skill....

 

It's too early to truly be concerned but I've always felt like ACE hasn't given enough respect to mechanical skill, and how important it is.

 

We've already seen millions of gamers prove that they are capable of learning and playing games that require both mechanical and tactical skill in one... so why offer something that isn't the complete package?

I surprisingly agree w. you. I think mechanical skill should matter, if falls under that "player skill will matter" tag line, not just crafting skill and economic skill should matter.  But, that being said, everyone posting in this thread forgets two major things.  Where a majority of the ppl posting here come from and where a majority of the Alpha testers come from.  The "too difficult"  I am sure is "aimed"  lol  at them.  There is no skill in choosing the right "card" to use ( no mechanical skil , anyways)  and the learning curve maybe steep.  So when some are posting " take mechanical skill" into consideration , others that are not posting are thinking " Thank the All Father Todd is considering us and realizing the game maybe be too hard for us".  IF CF is trying to attract a broader audience, then unfortunately, the skill part is going to be very intimidating to many and they may be the majority.   

 

ACE, fortunately for them has attracted ALL types of players to this game..that means more $$$ for them.  Unfortunately for those that consider themselves "elite" or "exceptional" , the end of the curve for those players may not turn out to be exactly what they wanted , skill wise, imo.

 

Disappointing but a real possibility.  

Edited by ellie

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I surprisingly agree w. you. I think mechanical skill should matter, if falls under that "player skill will matter" tag line, not just crafting skill and economic skill should matter.  But, that being said, everyone posting in this thread forgets two major things.  Where a majority of the ppl posting here come from and where a majority of the Alpha testers come from.  The "too difficult"  I am sure is "aimed"  lol  at them.  There is no skill in choosing the right "card" to use ( no mechanical skil , anyways)  and the learning curve maybe steep.  So when some are posting " take mechanical skill" into consideration , others that are not posting are thinking " Thank the All Father Todd is considering us and realizing the game maybe be too hard for us".  IF CF is trying to attract a broader audience, then unfortunately, the skill part is going to be very intimidating to many and they may be the majority.   

 

ACE, fortunately for them has attracted ALL types of players to this game..that means more $$$ for them.  Unfortunately for those that consider themselves "elite" or "exceptional" , the end of the curve for those players may not turn out to be exactly what they wanted , skill wise, imo.

 

Disappointing but a real possibility.  

Well in my own opinion, not to offend anyone or anything... but the current standards and expectations from people that were hooked on previous games like shadowbane or wizard101, were playing games significantly below the skill standards of modern games.... so right now you have a group of people that are on one end of the spectrum.... and then people like me who are asking for skill to matter relative to what games are considered skillful in the present.  I am not asking for quake1 twitch or sc:bw apm, but i'd at least like something that takes more skill than a WoW, or a GW2, or other standard popular mmos right now... if they end up below that standard that isn't good for them. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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That's right, Sheen. Where is Sheen anyway?, and no Vikingnail, this thread wasn't launched in a spirit of sincerity, and you elitist have been ridiculing everyone who disapproves of manual aiming all along, justice is painful.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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That's right, Sheen. Where is Sheen anyway?, and no Vikingnail, this thread wasn't launched in a spirit of sincerity, and you elitist have been ridiculing everyone who disapproves of manual aiming all along, justice is painful.

What justice are you referring to?  You either come to a thread with a sincere agenda or you don't?   Maybe you feel ridiculed because you feel opinions apply to you, but that's on you.  Sorry if in my opinion people that want aim assistance are asking for a less skillful system... i'd prefer more skill, that's my opinion. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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