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oh god pls no

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Well in my own opinion, not to offend anyone or anything... but the current standards and expectations from people that were hooked on previous games like shadowbane or wizard101, were playing games significantly below the skill standards of modern games.... so right now you have a group of people that are on one end of the spectrum.... and then people like me who are asking for skill to matter relative to what games are considered skillful in the present.  I am not asking for quake1 twitch or sc:bw apm, but i'd at least like something that takes more skill than a WoW, or a GW2, or other standard popular mmos right now... if they end up below that standard that isn't good for them. 

Well not sure who it's not good for.    The "highly" skilled players?  How can ACE make a game, attracting everyone and then have a highly intensive game mechanic that only a few will master?  Think about it.  I WANT them to stick to their manifesto.  I want to hold them to it.   Even if making it "easier" would make it easier for me to excel.  The thing they will most likely look at, sadly, is the fun factor and how they can make it the most fun for the most player for the long haul.  And make the most money.  

 

There will be disappointment I am afraid, for many that have followed/ backed this game.   It remains to be seen who they are and how disappointed and if they will stay around.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Well not sure who it's not good for.    The "highly" skilled players?  How can ACE make a game, attracting everyone and then have a highly intensive game mechanic that only a few will master?  Think about it.  I WANT them to stick to their manifesto.  I want to hold them to it.   Even if making it "easier" would make it easier for me to excel.  The thing they will most likely look at, sadly, is the fun factor and how they can make it the most fun for the most player for the long haul.  And make the most money.  

 

There will be disappointment I am afraid, for many that have followed/ backed this game.   It remains to be seen who they are and how disappointed and if they will stay around.

It's not good for anyone if they are BELOW the current standards, which by itself is a farcry from being innovative or refreshing or groundbreaking or whatever else....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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First of all, I'm being more sincere than the OP or most of the responses, second of all, it's written into every word you say, you openly promote that it's more skillful while completely ignoring the varieties of challenges other mechanisms offer and the people that enjoy them, so why should anyone care what you like when your oblivious to anyone else's likes? That is justice.

 

Beside that, I care none what anyone thinks, I'm mature enough to care less when someone doesn't agree or respect my opinion,but I do have a problem with the obnoxious behavior toward other participants who don't deserve it and may not be as confident or eloquent about their tastes. I loath bold faced ignorance too, as long as nonsense is spewed, I'll be satisfied with wiping it back in people's faces. I'm cruel like that.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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First of all, I'm being more sincere than the OP or most of the responses, second of all, it's written into every word you say, you openly promote that it's more skillful while completely ignoring the varieties of challenges other mechanisms offer and the people that enjoy them, so why should anyone care what you like when your oblivious to anyone else's likes? That is justice.

 

Beside that, I care none what anyone thinks, I'm mature enough to care less when someone doesn't agree or respect my opinion,but I do have a problem with the obnoxious behavior toward other participants who don't deserve it and may not be as confident or eloquent about their tastes. I loath bold faced ignorance too, as long as nonsense is spewed, I'll be satisfied with wiping it back in people's faces. I'm cruel like that.

Seems like a lot of people agree with me in wanting player skill to matter...

 

As for the rest of your post...  you seem to have imagined some narrative... no one said manual aim was promised or guaranteed, they only said that manual aim is the way to go and that ACE should not settle on a system that is less skillful.  You seem to have some personal war with manual aiming... we'll leave it to testing phase to determine why that is. 

 

Edit:  You seem quick to label others ignorant or obnoxious... i simply won't resort to that in this environment, it's petty and insincere to productive discussion. 

 

I also speak from a modern mainstream gamer POV, I leave my personal preferences out of my game design suggestions, because I know my tastes are not in line with the mainstream, I suggest things based on standards that I believe would be better for the game to appeal to a good amount of consumers...  So accusing me of being oblivious is silly... I know what many gamers like... I also know some gamers have tastes not really in line with many standards... sorry but some of those tastes just don't make for good games.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I can't see myself playing a soft lock type game.  Please don't handicap the game and make it feel bogged down.  Keyboard and mouse aim is exact, please don't wander in the realm of lowering the skill cap to a point that the game just feels typical and 50% attention needed.

 

 

I can't believe who ever proof read the release let such a flamable topic slip in.

Edited by facerip

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I can't see myself playing a soft lock type game.  Please don't handicap the game and make it feel bogged down.  Keyboard and mouse aim is exact, please don't wander in the realm of lowering the skill cap to a point that the game just feels typical and 50% attention needed.

 

 

I can't believe who ever proof read the release let such a flamable topic slip in.

Blixtev: aim assist is next on the spectrum before soft locking

 

Blixtev is thomas blair and he just said this on a podcast... cause for concern?  Seems like they are already thinking about this a lot...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Blixtev: aim assist is next on the spectrum before soft locking

 

Blixtev is thomas blair and he just said this on a podcast... cause for concern?  Seems like they are already thinking about this a lot...

 

GG Crowfall.


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I don't understand the point of aim assist on a keyboard and mouse.  So you are adding a handicap effectiveness increase by percent?  How is aim assist even balanced to spells. Do spells get different amounts of aim assist?

 

I for one will just be playing what ever arch/disc combo produces the highest DPS with the most aim assist if that's the case.  Until I get bored and quit I suppose.  Aim assist is terrible.

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Blixtev: aim assist is next on the spectrum before soft locking

 

Blixtev is thomas blair and he just said this on a podcast... cause for concern?  Seems like they are already thinking about this a lot...

Can read the devtracker where Blair explained it in the announcement thread. Of course they are thinking about it, thats smart development IMO. They have to be ready to adjust and tweak the combat to make it Fun. Remember the Find the Fun article? Thats their mindset. If something isn't working they have to be ready to try the next thing, then the next etc. No idea why that comes as a surprise.

Edited by pang

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Can read the devtracker where Blair explained it in the announcement thread. Of course they are thinking about it, thats smart development IMO. They have to be ready to adjust and tweak the combat to make it Fun. Remember the Find the Fun article? Thats their mindset. If something isn't working they have to be ready to try the next thing, then the next etc. No idea why that comes as a surprise.

It's not a surprise, it's just cause for concern... if someone decides to make an action combat game... and before even testing they are already talking about aim assist and such... that generally isn't a good sign for people who think aim assist is not good for action combat pvp games. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Look people, there's absolutely going to be some form of "Sticky Targeting" in one way or another. Either it will be a soft lock or the game will have a pretty high level of lag compensation. Lag compensation meaning that your projectiles have A LOT of buffer room and are much bigger than they appear. This is to help combat latency since in MMO's in particular people can move very quickly AND have movement abilities. 

 

If we all lived 100 miles from each other and had fiber then we could have a completely free form aiming system with no form of projectile assistance. Without some form of sticky targeting or lag compensation the game would be completely dreadful for ranged and maybe even melee.

Edited by Zybak

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I think people are overreacting a bit. Does aim assist take less skill? Sure. Will it help to level the playing field between the different skill levels of gamers? I think so. Will that cause a greater number of players to stick around? Probably.

 

Does anybody else find irony with the tears coming from a few of the toxic avengers, who just recently railed against toxicity in PVP games in an effort to attract, and retain, more players? Yet, now that aim assist might make it in the game, favoring a broader demographic, they slam their feet screaming. It's gonna be what it's gonna be.

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Personally I'd like to try it and/or see it in action before I start telling people to git gud. Maybe in its current form, ranged is more difficult and not as rewarding as melee. We'll have to wait and see. I think it'd be great if the ranged classes had a higher skill requirement and you can easily tell the difference between a good and great player that way.

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I think people are overreacting a bit. Does aim assist take less skill? Sure. Will it help to level the playing field between the different skill levels of gamers? I think so. Will that cause a greater number of players to stick around? Probably.

 

Does anybody else find irony with the tears coming from a few of the toxic avengers, who just recently railed against toxicity in PVP games in an effort to attract, and retain, more players? Yet, now that aim assist might make it in the game, favoring a broader demographic, they slam their feet screaming. It's gonna be what it's gonna be.

 

I'm just laughing at the indignity when people plainly argue for a minority and play at defending the public, all while trying to protect their personal preferences with unqualified jabs at players skill.

 

Believe it or not, some people who are good at shooters don't expect or want Crowfall to have manual projectile fire. It's a statistical impossibility. Despite the obvious accessibility and population the game can entertain with an easier system, I'm personally not for promoting a feature just because it has wider appeal, a product can be successful by serving a smaller niche demographic, and Crowfall has adopted that, it just hasn't adopted it in the manner that some players have assigned to it.

 

What I find amusing is how indignant people can be about a misguided entitlement, while they disrespect players of other interests like they don't matter and pretend like their defending a majority, that's just hilarious.

 

Stay classy shooter elitists, we salute you ;)

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I'm just laughing at the indignity when people plainly argue for a minority and play at defending the public, all while trying to protect their personal preferences with unqualified jabs at players skill.

 

Actually some people are trying to protect the game by making sure it isn't yet another wow clone (in this case in spirit) by dumbing down things that can be skillful to a ridiculously easy level.  If you consider advocating for skillful elements a jab, that's on you. 

 

Believe it or not, some people who are good at shooters don't expect or want Crowfall to have manual projectile fire.

 

Name the people, and show me they are good at shooters that are known to have a high skill ceiling and very competitive environment.

 

 

It's a statistical impossibility.

 

Impossibility is a strong and kind of closeminded word to use.  Perhaps you meant improbability. 

 

Despite the obvious accessibility and population the game can entertain with an easier system, I'm personally not for promoting a feature just because it has wider appeal, a product can be successful by serving a smaller niche demographic, and Crowfall has adopted that, it just hasn't adopted it in the manner that some players have assigned to it.

 

I don't think you realize that trying to make games too easy is basically the WoW clone philosophy, it makes the game appealing to people that are unlikely to jump ship from their other games, they try them out, realize that the game hasn't really done much that is innovative and move back home... hence the failure of wow clones time and time again.... what they should be doing is trying to appeal to a large market of people that aren't WoW clone type players...  Which is what they are trying to do, and a pvp game with easy combat will not succeed in that. 

 

What I find amusing is how indignant people can be about a misguided entitlement, while they disrespect players of other interests like they don't matter and pretend like their defending a majority, that's just hilarious.

Stay classy shooter elitists, we salute you ;)

 

What's the point of saying stuff like this?

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Awe, look at em stew, I wonder if he thinks I'm still reading :]

 

Well you read the response and your retort was pretty awful.  So either continue the discussion or back out.

 

The over all consensus of this thread so far is that soft lock and aim assist is a terrible mistake and bad path to go down.

Edited by facerip

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Seems like a lot of people agree with me in wanting player skill to matter...

 

I highly doubt many do not want "skill" to matter, problem is that we probably all have a different view of what "skill" is. You called out WoW & GW2, but unless you have proof of being "the best" in both, I doubt you have top end skill in either.

 

It's not a surprise, it's just cause for concern... if someone decides to make an action combat game... and before even testing they are already talking about aim assist and such... that generally isn't a good sign for people who think aim assist is not good for action combat pvp games. 

 

"In deciding what we want combat to "look and feel like," we are drawing a lot of our inspiration from other recent mmos. We love the idea of action-combat - but we have to make sure the game doesn't get too "twitchy" (I.E. require lightning fast reflexes or too much button-mashing)"....wildstar/tera....yadda yadda.

 

Considering the games they are drawing inspiration from and what they've said about how physics and abilities might work, I'm doubting it will stray too far into the upper ceiling of manual "skill" that some may want. Not that having such skills won't help and by default give some an advantage, CF doesn't seem to be going for a super esport design with the individual's skill to override that of teamwork and strategy over periods of time.

 

Don't believe the game needs saving nor ACE is clueless. They seem well aware of what fans want, but more importantly what they want. It is their game before it is ours.

 

Name the people, and show me they are good at shooters that are known to have a high skill ceiling and very competitive environment.

 

 

While I'm no "pro," been shooting folks online since the early/mid 90s and I would prefer Crowfall to not require a ton of manual skill. A decent amount would be nice, but there are multiple ways to tackle it that don't fall into Darkfall/FPS designs.

 

I don't think you realize that trying to make games too easy is basically the WoW clone philosophy, it makes the game appealing to people that are unlikely to jump ship from their other games, they try them out, realize that the game hasn't really done much that is innovative and move back home... hence the failure of wow clones time and time again.... what they should be doing is trying to appeal to a large market of people that aren't WoW clone type players...  Which is what they are trying to do, and a pvp game with easy combat will not succeed in that.  

 

Again this goes to what you personally define as "easy." You point out WoW, so I assume it is "easy" to you, if so I'd assume you can hop in and dominate anyone at anytime and win any tournament out there?

 

Each game requires a different tool set and type of skill. I don't personally prefer/enjoy the WoW system, but I respect those that have what it takes to be top tier in it. Same goes for any competitive game. It's like saying Basketball takes more skill then Golf or Nascar.

 

Having soft locks or whatever isn't going to transform CF into WoW or dumb it down. It already has a list of features that will keep it nice and niche. How much so is to be seen and there is that whole "this game isn't for everyone" motto.

 

You made a comment about what "real PVPers" want and that is simply silly. I'm a PVPer and enjoy a wide variety of options. What you are talking about is a very specific type of gamer with a specific style aka yourself it seems.

 

This post is giving me deja vu, swear I typed something similar months ago in response to Sheen...same company, same vision, same fans, same circular conversation.

Edited by allein

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Well you read the response and your retort was pretty awful.  So either continue the discussion or back out.

 

The over all consensus of this thread so far is that soft lock and aim assist is a terrible mistake and bad path to go down.

 

Clearly ~10-20 people speak for the entire group of backers and future players...

 

Terrible mistake is assuming we know more than the devs as to how to make the game. If they decide to give everyone aimbot and no skills will ever miss, oh well, is what it is.

 

Until I actually see it in action or better yet get my hands on it, I can only assume they have the experience to create something that at least a few folks might actually enjoy.

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