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Unnamed

oh god pls no

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like everything else, there should be costs and tradeoffs for 'advantage'.

 

you want the fastest possible projectile speed? channel it longer for quick impact and greater damage (it is physics after all...Force = Mass x Acceleration)

 

 

As long as they make melee do less damage unless they also have to channel to do more.  (which I think is as ridiculous as punishing ranged)

 

Why is it in order to play a ranged char effectively there always has to be limitations imposed?  

 

 

How about make soft targeting work for both ranged and melee. If I have you in my highlighted crosshairs and I release a skill it hits you whether I am ranged or melee.  This would stop the twitch hopping of melee because they would have to control the cursor and could not faceroll.  This would make ranged still have to aim and take away the melee who want to face roll the computer.

 

If someone jumps in front of my projectile then it hits them.  This fixes the need for having a varied system.  There would not be a need for a hard lock.  

 

Now, I am not sure if this is exploitable or if it can be synced between clients.  So I am sure someone could elaborate.

Edited by Nakawe

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As long as they make melee do less damage unless they also have to channel to do more.  (which I think is as ridiculous as punishing ranged)

 

Why is it in order to play a ranged char effectively there always has to be limitations imposed?  

 

 

How about make soft targeting work for both ranged and melee. If I have you in my highlighted crosshairs and I release a skill it hits you whether I am ranged or melee.  This would stop the twitch hopping of melee because they would have to control the cursor and could not faceroll.  This would make ranged still have to aim and take away the melee who want to face roll the computer.

 

If someone jumps in front of my projectile then it hits them.  This fixes the need for having a varied system.  There would not be a need for a hard lock.  

 

Now, I am not sure if this is exploitable or if it can be synced between clients.  So I am sure someone could elaborate.

 

We'll have animation locking.  You can't bunny hop with animation locks.  We'll also have collision so you can't just slide through a ranged and 180 abilities 1234 and repeat ad nauseum until they die.

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At a certain point that doesn't matter because you're trying to hit one guy in a group of 3 guys shuffling in directions, and maybe you hit enough times to have mattered or maybe you did one arrow, and they run and positon to make you useless.

 

Maybe your damage is meerly incidental and simply there to counter certain buffs/random expected benifits the enemy has and you getting a kill is an incidental benifit to you existing for game balance.

 

Maybe you have a spot on a map that you can reliably hit people on/around, but it only lasts for one objective and the entire next stage of the map you're loose and no readable movement pattern inducing terrain exists, and you're just chucking arrows, hoping beyond hope not to have a person on your team run into the path of one...

 

 

There are so many ways to make shooting an arrow feel like a lame duck thing...or a mysterious unsolvable problem.

Edited by Zomnivore

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At a certain point that doesn't matter because you're trying to hit one guy in a group of 3 guys shuffling in directions, and maybe you hit enough times to have mattered or maybe you did one arrow, and they run and positon to make you useless.

 

Maybe your damage is meerly incidental and simply there to counter certain buffs/random expected benifits the enemy has and you getting a kill is an incidental benifit to you existing for game balance.

 

Maybe you have a spot on a map that you can reliably hit people on/around, but it only lasts for one objective and the entire next stage of the map you're loose and no readable movement pattern inducing terrain exists, and you're just chucking arrows, hoping beyond hope not to have a person on your team run into the path of one...

 

 

There are so many ways to make shooting an arrow feel like a lame duck thing...or a mysterious unsolvable problem.

Then it becomes a thing where you simply pick situations you can flourish in and avoid ones you can't. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I guess you can say that, but what if those "floursh" situations are the least valuable for your faction? Lame duck those areas, or struggle where the value is?

Edited by Zomnivore

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I guess you can say that, but what if those "floursh" situations are the least valuable for your faction? Lame duck those areas, or struggle where the value is?

If it were a case where player skill could not realistically make a class enjoyable they would probably look to fix it for the next campaign or something... value is subjective, it changes frequently... you can't expect to always be the prom king of usefulness.... sometimes some things need a hammer, other times they need a wrench. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I see this place doesn't change much.

 

My two cents on this is that really this being an MMO described as EVE meets GOT and not Counter Strike meets GOT, If you expect fully manual aiming you have very high chances to be disappointed.

 

Now, I like fully manual aim because I like FPS games as well. Can that be said of most MMO gamers? Maybe? Probably not? I think it leans more towards the "probably not".

 

Therefore I think we are likely to see some type of "assist" like a degree of homing on projectile and before you take up pick forks and cry bloody murder because you cannot slinky your way 100% around the ranged classes I do not think it will be the end of the world and mechanically skilled players will still fare much better than the average player at playing ranged.

 

I think as long as we stay away from tab targeting and target locking I am sure this game will stay "Fun" even for the good FPS players. There just might just be a point where good enough is good enough. A pyramid with a flat top if you may.

 

At the very least wait until you all try it before stating silly things like "Man glad I didn't back much .. going to drop this game like a hot potato..."

 

Cheers

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 "If we find it is too difficult to play ranged, we have a few systems we may need to add or augment, like ‘sticky’ targets, ranged assist or some manner of soft locking system."

 

The game is a good 17 months away. Let's give them some time to figure out what works best. The chicken little posts are kind of pointless. Since the game isn't real life, there are going to be compensating systems. Because lag is a thing, you have to do this to some degree. How it's done is another story. As others have suggested, there's the speed of projectiles, the size of explosion, etc. that can be played with. To me those are "soft" aim assists and honestly are the same thing. It's a semantic argument IMO. 

 

One way or the other, there will likely be aim assist. Whether it's called that and is literally helpful nudges in projectiles is something different entirely. Making projectiles faster is just another way to accomplish the same thing. 

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Twitch shooting works fairly well in Firefall. I can't imagine why it wouldn't work well in Crowfall. After all, they both have "fall" in the name, so that means they're the same game, right?

 

Also donuts.


Formerly Scin Karetyr, a native of Chilastra in Star Wars Galaxies

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 "If we find it is too difficult to play ranged, we have a few systems we may need to add or augment, like ‘sticky’ targets, ranged assist or some manner of soft locking system."

emot-doh.gif

 

sticky targets?

 

what is this, CoD for your xbox controller?


The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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There are a lot of things that work on paper that don't work in practice.

 

We should take the original paper and put it to work and see what it does. I am also not a fan of anything that lowers the bar, but I am willing to see how it works per original design and go from there. The original design is a full manual aim design, whether that be a distant projectile or a close up cone ability.

 

I personally believe we should work to raise the standard. You can see how far gaming has come from being challenging. It used to be you only had mostly challenging games due to technical limitations, and as we have progressed the industry gaming has become easier and easier with a few games not fitting the mold. There are some "games" that require absolutely no thought whatsoever now, just pure button clicking with no decision making. While I doubt Crowfall will be a low standard game, I do feel we should keep the standard high.

 

Those standing in dissent against the potential of a lower standard, can and should continue to stand. I would rather play this game with the same 100,000 people over the next ten years than a bunch of random new people who flood in and out of games to the tune of 1,500,000 who are always just looking for the next new thing. By keeping high standards you will earn the respect of many folks who have been missing a quality challenging experience for many years in and environment akin to those from 10-15 years ago in the MMORPG space. There is no reason to lower the skill bar, and people need to continue to fight the good fight here to help keep this game solid for the few, not malleable for the many.

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It's pretty simple... make a good game, and people will play it, it might not sell 3million copies right at launch, but if the game is solid people will talk about it and you can build your playerbase in a stable and organic way. 

 

Don't be another "make it easy for everyone" game, there are tons of those, they don't work, especially for pvpers. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It's pretty simple... make a good game, and people will play it, it might not sell 3million copies right at launch, but if the game is solid people will talk about it and you can build your playerbase in a stable and organic way. 

 

Don't be another "make it easy for everyone" game, there are tons of those, they don't work, especially for pvpers. 

 

Totally agree. I think the developers here are on the same wavelength fortunately. They seem to know they aren't going to please everyone. I've heard a lot of encouraging things from them since the game was announced, so I really hope they stick to their guns. As long as their financials mean it's profitable to do so, I can't imagine why they would sway. As Adall said, we'd rather play a game with fewer people that was amazing than compromise the quality of the game so that they can get more subscribers. Honestly, that's the quickest way to get me to leave. If the game is good, you'll earn the respect and money of a dedicated playerbase. It may not be the biggest playerbase, but who cares?

 

No players ever interact with 99% of the other players in super MMOs. What's the difference if there's 200 servers or 20 servers? I only play on one typically, so it's no difference to the players. 

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I would be happy with a solid 250k or so players as long as the game was fun and enjoyable.  I don't think mimicking a twitch style fps game would be enjoyable though.  Make a solid mmo with decent combat that my friends and I can enjoy and you will have 100 plus or minus a few subscribers from my guild...

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I bet ACE would be too.

I dunno if they would be happy with 250k in this day and age, I know they threw around 100k before but they gotta be looking at a better ROI than that.  I think a game of this nature, the sky is the limit if they continue to make good decisions over time and post launch and don't give into cashgrab "features" and such. 

 

Also due to the nature of viral gaming, the demand for good and unique mmorpgs, and the popularity of the survival genre... I predict crowfall to sell  at least 1million copies in the first year.  If h1z1 can do it they definitely can. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I dunno if they would be happy with 250k in this day and age, I know they threw around 100k before but they gotta be looking at a better ROI than that.  I think a game of this nature, the sky is the limit if they continue to make good decisions over time and post launch and don't give into cashgrab "features" and such. 

 

Also due to the nature of viral gaming, the demand for good and unique mmorpgs, and the popularity of the survival genre... I predict crowfall to sell  at least 1million copies in the first year.  If h1z1 can do it they definitely can. 

I would like to see a few more survival elements  in the harder campaigns...Survival combined with gathering resources to win would be a nice combo...

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