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Santovenia

Please don't build any stuns (or equivalent) into the game.

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Healers are only as strong as your stupidity you have around you. A good healer will be shut down by a good team. 

and any healer that is worth his salt would prep before hand( keep rolling HoTs on themselves), save their cc breakers, call out when they are focused, stay in the back line, etc.

 

The point is that a good healer is very hard to shut down. You need your stuns for that because for the most part those healers were also designed to fight raid bosses.

Now there isn't a healer spamming every second. So Hard CC is not a requirement. CC in crowfall should be roots, silences, interrupts, slows, very small stuns that don't last 4 seconds, knock ups and knock backs, terrain adjustment, maybe mezzes.


PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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Mezzes are the one hard CC I have never had a problem with...because while you may mez me and lock me down with it...you also lock yourself down to maintain it and the slightest scratch to either of us breaks it.


"Lawful Good does not always mean Lawful Nice."

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Hard CC is the bane of ANY PvP game. Those that love long CCs tend to be the type of player that only roams in large packs, or those that stay stealthed for hours at a time wanting a quick kill.

Skills that deal half health or more in a single attack are also the bane of true PvP games. A PvPer enjoys out thinking and actually challenging themselves...one shots or 3 shots are not challenging, trading blows and the fight being close decided by appropriately timed dodges, self heals, self cleanses, and blocks...this is what a PvPer craves.

Those only interested in fast kills and high kill counts are just bleed overs from FPS games that don't understand GOOD PvP combat.

When exactly did you poll all pvpers again? You realize MOBAs which are some of the most popular PvP in the world all have hard and soft cc correct? You know what games don't have cc and are mindless run and gun? CoD... That sounds to be the type of player YOU are so slam back that mountain dew and get that 360 no scope. Cc and escape counterplay is just as intriguing as heal/cleanse... Edited by wargasmo

"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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When exactly did you poll all pvpers again? You realize MOBAs which are some of the most popular PvP in the world all have hard and soft cc correct? You know what games don't have cc and are mindless run and gun? CoD... That sounds to be the type of player YOU are so slam back that mountain dew and get that 360 no scope. Cc and escape counterplay is just as intriguing as heal/cleanse...

 

I don't play FPS at all. I do play League of Legends admittedly poorly (Silver) and I still hate hard CC. The longest stun/disable in League of Legends is 3 seconds. Crowd control can be countered by building tenacity or a banshee's veil (40 second cooldown) and yet, even building those things I HATE it. These fights are never more than 6v6 (In hexakill special events) and yet even then you can be locked down and killed instantly. I get it that cc is necessary and the fact that the time to kill is 40 seconds (WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY longer than in League) so it might not be as bad, but I still hate it.  I realize that this may not be how the majority of players feel and at the end of the day it's not going to keep me from playing. 

 

Early on Ultima Online had a short stun based off wrestling that I can remember as well as a paralyze spell (Which broke the moment you took damage), did Shadowbane have hard CC?.

 

 

 

........... I do like Mountain Dew. I never knew it would be held against me though.   =/

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Ewww.....Did landing a stun basically just win you the fight/duel?

 

Were there stun breakers?

 

Yea, a 15-second stun could easily be a death sentence.  There were ways to break a stun, but they required good teamwork since you could not un-stun yourself.


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Yea, a 15-second stun could easily be a death sentence.  There were ways to break a stun, but they required good teamwork since you could not un-stun yourself.

 

Would you have removed the stuns from the game if you could? Would you have reduced their length, or would you have left it as it was?

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Would you have removed the stuns from the game if you could? Would you have reduced their length, or would you have left it as it was?

 

I think 15 seconds was too much.  That said, I rarely played a character that had a 15-second stun, so I was usually just a victim of them.  Even then, I didn't find it game-ruining.

 

Yea, I would have reduced the duration.  To what number, I'm not sure.  It depends on a lot of things.  I don't think there is one right duration for hard CC.


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When exactly did you poll all pvpers again? You realize MOBAs which are some of the most popular PvP in the world all have hard and soft cc correct? You know what games don't have cc and are mindless run and gun? CoD... That sounds to be the type of player YOU are so slam back that mountain dew and get that 360 no scope. Cc and escape counterplay is just as intriguing as heal/cleanse...

You realize this is the exact reason why dota is not popular in korea right?  Because it has hard cc with a huge range that you can instagib people in, which isn't really all that skillful aside from perhaps coordinating a 1 second timing window...

 

Also no top level gamer ever thought hard cc was a good idea, they'd rather actively outplay their opponents.  Obviously they'll use hard cc if it is efficient because it is in the game and they'll use all tools available, but they hardly think it is a fun mechanic... 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Stuns are made to take down glasscannons, making game possible to play.

 

Everyone want to be a mighty super elvish sniper 1 shot everyone archer, but we need something to create kind of balance.

We need some cc, and anti cc, limited to few.

Enough.


Nice to eat You.

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Ewww.....Did landing a stun basically just win you the fight/duel?

 

Were there stun breakers?

no but there was stun immunity. after being stuned once you couldn't be stunned again for an amount of time. Thus no WoW rogue chain stuns.

also the stuns had decent cooldowns so they were more strategic in there use.

based on the stun lvl.

the 15 sec stun had a 2-3 min cooldown and gave 30 sec stun immunity. and could miss higher def targets. Also minos couldn't be stunned at all.

it was powerful even a lil overpowered but not something that couldn't be overcome.


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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SB combat needs to be viewed at a larger scale.

 

There was always someone with a commander rune to break the stun, or a bard to countersong or whatever...

 

I never felt the stuns to be an issue.

It was basically your own fault to not enter a fight stun-immune to begin with.

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I don't play FPS at all. I do play League of Legends admittedly poorly (Silver) and I still hate hard CC. The longest stun/disable in League of Legends is 3 seconds. Crowd control can be countered by building tenacity or a banshee's veil (40 second cooldown) and yet, even building those things I HATE it. These fights are never more than 6v6 (In hexakill special events) and yet even then you can be locked down and killed instantly. I get it that cc is necessary and the fact that the time to kill is 40 seconds (WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY longer than in League) so it might not be as bad, but I still hate it. I realize that this may not be how the majority of players feel and at the end of the day it's not going to keep me from playing.

 

Early on Ultima Online had a short stun based off wrestling that I can remember as well as a paralyze spell (Which broke the moment you took damage), did Shadowbane have hard CC?.

 

 

 

........... I do like Mountain Dew. I never knew it would be held against me though. =/

Then you understand even if its not something you enjoy you understand that its strategy. Positioning, items with active abilities, your own defensive or cc breaking abilities, its all strategy elements. UO even more so especially in mage duels was all about skilled timing of disrupts, para, and to a less reliable degree the wrestling stun. These are the elements that for me create "skilled" PvP. Outthinking your opponent knowing what their pattern will be and disrupting it to then take advantage.

 

To be fair I like Mt. Dew as well but only Baja blast :P

Edited by wargasmo

"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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You realize this is the exact reason why dota is not popular in korea right?  Because it has hard cc with a huge range that you can instagib people in, which isn't really all that skillful aside from perhaps coordinating a 1 second timing window...

 

Also no top level gamer ever thought hard cc was a good idea, they'd rather actively outplay their opponents.  Obviously they'll use hard cc if it is efficient because it is in the game and they'll use all tools available, but they hardly think it is a fun mechanic...

 

Again these generalized quotes that you make up to prove a point with no factual evidence drive me insane. How many pros do you know personally again? I personally know and game with two pros from the smite community and the stun/beads mechanic is one of the few things that actually like especially Matty since he plays support. And Korea doesnt like stuns? I mean... They like it enough to field 3 pro dota teams and 6-8 pro LoL teams...


"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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Again these generalized quotes that you make up to prove a point with no factual evidence drive me insane. How many pros do you know personally again? I personally know and game with two pros from the smite community and the stun/beads mechanic is one of the few things that actually like especially Matty since he plays support. And Korea doesnt like stuns? I mean... They like it enough to field 3 pro dota teams and 6-8 pro LoL teams...

You just started a battle against a wall my friend, don't question VikingNail's word on Esports lol! You will spend 3 days talking to a wall.

I've played with Weak3n and Cyclonespin often and Weak3n especially likes some hard cc.


PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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You just started a battle against a wall my friend, don't question VikingNail's word on Esports lol! You will spend 3 days talking to a wall.

I've played with Weak3n and Cyclonespin often and Weak3n especially likes some hard cc.

 

LMAO Yeah I was playing with Weaken and Shing on the beta servers before S2 smackin em around a bit lol.


"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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Again these generalized quotes that you make up to prove a point with no factual evidence drive me insane. How many pros do you know personally again? I personally know and game with two pros from the smite community and the stun/beads mechanic is one of the few things that actually like especially Matty since he plays support. And Korea doesnt like stuns? I mean... They like it enough to field 3 pro dota teams and 6-8 pro LoL teams...

There are no pros in the smite community...  You're talking about people that play a smaller game a lot... the best players aren't attracted to smaller games, there isn't enough money there, and there isn't enough competition. 

 

Just because you play a game professionally doesn't mean you like every aspect of the game, it's a job to them...

 

I myself regularly talk to maybe 10 pro or ex professional gamers... irregularly it's closer to 100... try again...

 

I'll say it again, dota is not popular in korea, because hard cc and the reliance on it followed by the instagib nature of dota is not skillful.  There's no active outplay if I can land a hardcc and then have free reign on someone... it exists in games, good players know how to abuse it, they don't find it particularly rewarding. 

 

The type of people that enjoy killing people without having to actively outplay them are the same type of people that enjoy calling in air strikes in call of duty. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Then you understand even if its not something you enjoy you understand that its strategy. Positioning, items with active abilities, your own defensive or cc breaking abilities, its all strategy elements. UO even more so especially in mage duels was all about skilled timing of disrupts, para, and to a less reliable degree the wrestling stun. These are the elements that for me create "skilled" PvP. Outthinking your opponent knowing what their pattern will be and disrupting it to then take advantage.

 

To be fair I like Mt. Dew as well but only Baja blast :P

We're trying to plan a war, not a duel. In a duel you intimately study a single opponents actions and try to catch him with his pants down, in a war, there are guys you can't even watch to contend with and those abilities end up becoming a chain of you don't play, or even less readable CC immunity timers.

 

Subtle effects can be devastating in a coordinated environment. The rules and behaviors expected in arenas, duels and fighting games don't work in a war scenario, you can't work a bunch of artificial safeguards without breaking tools necessary for smaller bands to face larger armies, and if you utilize hard CC, you get AoE chain stuns (or knock ups, knock downs, paralyze, so on).

 

There's a fundamental obstacle and shortcoming with hard CC under these contexts.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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All those 'pros' are nubs. I've been winning the chamepeen troll of the year award for the last ten years, and i play with my feet.

 

Personally I don't care if pros like stuns or not. I just want to have fun and stun locks aren't something I consider fun. So I agree with VN. Skillful play with outplay capabilities does not require stun locks.

Edited by Santovenia

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