Yomi: "Spies of the Mind" - Official discussion thread

[Pann 8,689]

'Yomi' is a Japanese term that means “seeing into the mind of your opponent”  

 

FULL STORY

 

[courant101 5,755]

"...it's an interesting (and incredibly) helpful set of foundational knowledge for understanding class balance in general and for outlining the tools that are necessary and expected in order to provide the depth of gameplay necessary to attract and retain master-level players."

 

 

 

I'm not anywhere close to that level, but it's cool to know that they're still talking about high skill ceiling.

[oberon 2,473]

/me reads your mind

 

Now we have another in game meme to go with things like "winter is coming" whenever the seasons change. Whenever anyone kills someone else or pulls off something impressive and there is any kind of discussion of an explanation, people will just say Yomi

Edited July 16, 2015 by oberon

[Shunejii 137]

Love that Daigo was mentioned in the article. If you need further information as to why he is regarded so highly in the FGC for his unnatural yomi ability, look up "Ume Shoryu" or "Psychic Uppercut". Evo moment #37 is also a great example of this.

[Kiro 791]

Reading your target has always been part of gaming.

 

Excitement comes when you misread an opponents tactics... it shows you the combat is not stale and forces on knee jerk reactions... keeps your mind always guessing what they'll do next.

 

Also, being unpredictable takes skill too.

 

/salute

 

See you in the Dregs,

And Happy Hunting~

Edited July 16, 2015 by Kiro Elmarok

[FenrisDDevil 3,473]

This part shouldn't be inside the quote:

 

"The chapter goes on to explore some examples of how this could play out in various scenarios. It truly is a fascinating read, I can’t recommend it strongly enough."

Edited July 16, 2015 by Fenris DDevil

[Mox 1,284]

Interesting.. give me more info and hints cheers!

[Adall 3,895]

I think spies are horrible and will send people running from this game. Please don't allow people to spy! It won't be good for the game long ter......

 

 

Sorry guys, had a spy in my office trying to create a public scare. He has been dealt with in the way all spies should be dealt with. Carry on, nothing to see here.

[pang 4,174]

Sounds interesting. Will look forward to seeing how its applied to CF when we see and play it for ourselves.

[Caenth 3,893]

I see what you're doing.

[drakiis 138]

/me reads your mind

 

Now we have another in game meme to go with things like "winter is coming" whenever the seasons change. Whenever anyone kills someone else or pulls off something impressive and there is any kind of discussion of an explanation, people will just say Yomi

Only it's going to be things like "I Yomi'd ur mom last night"

[Jihan 5,468]

Sorry guys, had a spy in my office trying to create a public scare. He has been dealt with in the way all spies should be dealt with. Carry on, nothing to see here.

 

Was it the blue spy, or the red spy?

 

_{are you sure?}

[teh_ninjaneer 493]

I think it's less about reading minds to predict movement and more about knowing which internet guide your opponent read on how to play his class.  That's the easiest way to predict his spec/build/gear and such.  

[Spawl 546]

I knew this subject was coming. Yomi in action.

 

Philosophically speaking, I can see where you are coming from. The Sun Tzu references from the article has a lot of group context to it but the video game analogies refer more to the individual player. On an individual basis, given the small set of skills for each class, it does appear that knowing the few options your enemy has and their impact on your choices will be important.

 

It is more interesting from a siege standpoint though and I can't wait to hear more about the mechanics of the Campaigns as it relates to this article.

[budkin 110]

This part shouldn't be inside the quote:

 

"The chapter goes on to explore some examples of how this could play out in various scenarios. It truly is a fascinating read, I can’t recommend it strongly enough."

 

Fixed it, thank you.

[bairloch 2,136]

I've been wanting to know more about this since its first mention. Interesting.

I do hope there is a place for spies and yomi in Crowfall... 'cause I'm pretty good at one and I have no idea if I have much ability at the other.

[sneaky_squirrel 1,010]

I'm not sure if I can handle any more of these updates.  I want to start testing right now.  My patience crumbles.

[dreaden 621]

In my opinion, it is the OODA loop operating at a high level. Observe a situation you are extremely exprienced in, orient known effective actions, decide which action to implement, act by putting said action into place. If you are able to cycle the OODA loop faster than your opponent, you get a step ahead in the decision making process. When you are ahead of the decision making process you are no longer reacting, your opponent is. This is ideal in combat of any kind because you can force decisions on the enemy that you know the response to. If you know how the enemy will respond to an action, you can counter with impunity.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

Edited July 16, 2015 by dreaden

[valor 2,138]

Yomi....

 

It's an interesting concept and one that is a fantastic to apply to a wide range of subjects.  What is not included in this definition is everything that it takes to "see into the mind of your opponent".  When we talk about a PvP MMO, people very often believe that PvP is action and reaction.  What they do, you have to react to.  This is where a lot of the "OMG THIS BETTER BE SUPER TWITCH HARDCORE OR ITS A WUSSY GAME!" comes from.  They want to get out there and wreck faces and prove their superiority.

 

It doesn't take a fantastic PvP'er to be successful, if they can predict what their opponents will do.  They can then use politics, environment, espionage against their opponents to wear them down and destroy them.  This is an important cornerstone that many people are hungry for and of course, fantastic PvP'ers can also be skilled at "foreknowledge".

 

 

 

Yomi, however, can be applied to game design and accounts for the failure of many many MMO's.  The design team is not able to see what their opponent, "Their subscribers", are going to do or how they are going to react.  We've seen the blunders, time and time again.  This all ties in together that to truly understand your opponent, you need to become as much like your opponent as you can so that you can work to see the world and what you are doing through THEIR eyes.  What usually has happened is that teams have guarded themselves so tightly away from the community that they become unable to see what the community needs or wants.  The more stabs in the dark at solutions that they make, the worse they will wear out their reputation.

Edited July 16, 2015 by valor

[Jah 8,372]

Yomi, however, can be applied to game design and accounts for the failure of many many MMO's.  The design team is not able to see what their opponent, "Their subscribers", are going to do or how they are going to react.  We've seen the blunders, time and time again.  This all ties in together that to truly understand your opponent, you need to become as much like your opponent as you can so that you can work to see the world and what you are doing through THEIR eyes.  What usually has happened is that teams have guarded themselves so tightly away from the community that they become unable to see what the community needs or wants.  The more stabs in the dark at solutions that they make, the worse they will wear out their reputation.

 

Interesting point.  I suppose it goes both ways.  If fans want to influence the devs they need to "understand the opponent" in order to rise above the din and effectively persuade them.