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Make Arrows An Item


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After killing a guy on a full loot server this guy will take a bow and he is PvP ready with infinite amount of shots? Sieges are going to be fun with this mechanics. You will love fighting vs such a guys

I'm pretty sure that non-bow archetypes will not be able to just pick up and a bow and use it.

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Finite. Everything revolves around resources, and that should include ammo. Obviously casters should have some other way to attack also, like melee attacks, but giving infinite ammo removes and entire

There's many pros and cons to both Infinite and Finite ammo systems.    We have an idea on which path we are going go down, but this is a topic we've been discussing since the early days of Crowfall

It's amusing how "hardcore" PVPers get squishy when it's suggested that ammo is finite. Everything in Crowfall is resource limited. Your sword is going to dull and break. Your armor is going to rend a

Why so many people run from wide game experience? Remove all the features that make this game different and not casual.

 

Lets make all weapons with the same dps/range just with different model, no cooldowns no run speed difference, fake non target, no full loot, more safe zones and... voillla... Tera or by removing fake non-target we have "any other game" released since 2005 with few exceptions.

I don't see how anything you quoted has anything to do with your post, but okay. I didn't say anything about making all items the same thing, in fact, I posted quite the contrary.

 

I would be fine with crafted ammo as well, but I have never seen it add much value to the experience of the game. If ammo was required, it would have to be trivial enough for people to make it easily. Then again, I have zero idea how any of the classes are going to play. Will "ranged archer" classes be able to melee? How much focus on melee will they have? Who knows at this point, way too early in the game.

 

Overall, I think going with either would be fine at the beginning, and is something that can easily be changed later during alpha/beta testing.

Edited by MattVid

Vidrak - Member of


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I'm pretty sure that non-bow archetypes will not be able to just pick up and a bow and use it.

By watching a video you can see there knight with the bow on his back and I still believe that archetypes are like classes from Anarchy Online, that means all primary skills will lvl faster and secondary the way slower. Your class depends only on that.

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By watching a video you can see there knight with the bow on his back and I still believe that archetypes are like classes from Anarchy Online, that means all primary skills will lvl faster and secondary the way slower. Your class depends only on that.

Why even have archetypes with defined roles in the first place if it's like that? I doubt we'll see open-ended classes like that.

 

I'd say that only Ranger, Knight, Assassin, Stalker and Legionnaire will be able to use bows, if I had to guess.

 

In addition to that, Knight, Assassin and Legionnaire will probably have focused their skills and abilities into more melee stuff, so if they did pick up a bow to use, they would be somewhat gimped.

Edited by macavity

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Why even have archetypes with defined roles in the first place if it's like that? I doubt we'll see open-ended classes like that.

 

I'd say that only Ranger, Knight, Assassin, Stalker and Legionnaire will be able to use bows, if I had to guess.

 

In addition to that, Knight, Assassin and Legionnaire will probably have focused their skills and abilities into more melee stuff, so if they did pick up a bow to use, they would be somewhat gimped.

Well, there is more than just your archetype choice. If you look at the Kickstarter example of the Knight. He has 3 Disciplines he can choose from:

Though each role is initially balanced for distinct specializations, players will have MANY ways to customize their hero's stats, appearance, abilities and gear! 

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As characters grow they can collect up to three Disciplines, which are sub-classes such as archery, blacksmithing, or bounty hunting. Disciplines can dramatically alter and enhance a character's skills and capabilities. 

 

So, there will be multiple roles that each archetype can fill. There really isn't enough information to really know how it is going to be ... so we will have to more wait and see :P

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Well, there is more than just your archetype choice. If you look at the Kickstarter example of the Knight. He has 3 Disciplines he can choose from:

So, there will be multiple roles that each archetype can fill. There really isn't enough information to really know how it is going to be ... so we will have to more wait and see :P

Yeah, but what I meant was that you'll most likely end up focusing 1 thing and then going with that. I doubt we'll be seeing people playing with bot maxed out melee skills AND maxed out ranged skills.

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Yeah, but what I meant was that you'll most likely end up focusing 1 thing and then going with that. I doubt we'll be seeing people playing with bot maxed out melee skills AND maxed out ranged skills.

I honestly don't know. But I think you may be looking at it a little to simplified. The skill caps on skills seem to be able to be modified a number of ways. Through character creation as well as the paths/choices you choose over time. Min-Max wise, you are probably right. But I could definitely see a Knight being able to use a Sword and a Bow. As far as how proficient? I don't know.

 

Personally, I would like to see classes be able to "switch roles" or provide some way to get some different gameplay out of them. Like say if a Knight could change their focus from Tank to Melee DPS to Ranged Specialist depending on what the situation calls for, or what he/his group is doing. It would be lame if you went down the melee path and were just stuck with it forever. It is going to make characters very 1-dimensional if so.

 

We will just have to see how things progress. Right now, it is all speculation and guessing :P

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Having finite ammo could be interesting if done right. Uh, essentially the finite arrow system basically works the same as item decay with having to regularly pay money for your weapon to continue work, only that the finite arrow system is a lot more interesting because there are different kinds of arrows!

 

I do believe arrows is something that will be tied to one's class identity and so it could be important. But arrows shouldn't be hard to find or to create, but be more about the aestetics of it and perhaps some decisions with fire/ice/poison buffed arrows or something, idk.

 

Also, if you use arrows on a target and you kill it, say that perhaps 80% of the arrows will be retained automatically after the kill. Wouldn't that be cool? Then arrows could have a totally different meaning when it comes to "durability", meaning some arrows could have really high damage but low retainment rate or vice versa. Just a wild though, don't know if it would be good in the end or not.

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If ranged weapons are subject to wear and tear when they're used (as opposed to just "death penalty" damage) then it seems overly picky to require ammo as well. It seems like two ways of achieving the same function.

 

But I do like the idea of variable ammo, which could modify the characteristics of a weapon. Bodkins or broadheads? Could be a nice way to encourage crafting. Something similar could apply to spellcasting (bags of additional reagents) or melee (err... sharpening stones? Oils? Blasting caps on hammers?).

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Finite ammo.

 

At the very least a reloading mechanic.

 

I've seen people say "but then melee will have an advantage" how is it an advantage for a melee character to not have to be kited an entire fight. Having infinite ammo would make playing a melee class a nightmare in many cases. Having to stop to refill your quiver does not give melee classes an advantage, it takes one away from ranged classes (a pretty big one at that).

 

But seriously, though.

 

Finite ammo.

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Maybe Infintie, but a reload might be nice. Range classes of late tend to be OP and overplayed. Some trigger to slow them down isn't a bad thing.

 

Maybe that is too FPS, but a thought...

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This thread is hilarious

 

 

You guys are ok with a degrading system so bow and weapons in general have some kind of obligatory regeneration and crafting. You are ok with a system that makes you have to get new weapons each x time. So, going to city, gathering wood, crafting new bows each x time, etc.

 

Yet, getting arrows is too " annoying and tedious ".... 

 

This is not about getting or not finite arrows, it's about comodity.

 

 

If you want to sit down in a corner and keep shooting arrows for the rest of the day, go play an arena. This game is based on campaigns, with resource gathering, and strategical warfare where infinite arrows would add nothing but arrow spam.

 

As I said before, making infinite arrows would fence the arrow value and damage. Having infinite arrows means they wouldn't let us use the bow as a war strategic weapon. The bow will be used only as a long melee weapon, since the range of the bow shouldn't be too high to prevent infinite arrow spam.

 

 

By making arrows infinite, you are totally destroying another layer of strategy, that can be developed individually, or by group. And the only reason for this is comodity?..

 

I rather craft tons of arrows than tons of bows

 

 

PS: Using only 1 kind of weapon is stupid ( for not saying an inerty of comodity), even in wow hunters had ranged and melee weapons.

Edited by Homun
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Finite is much better in MMOs. Not only is it a meaningful part of realism and giving characters more choices and risks to take in the game (bring more ammo to risk loosing it and not having as much inventory) but it allows for different kinds of arrows!

 

Arrows that could be made out of every material in the game even

Armor piercing arrows

Fire arrows

Each resource could make a different combo for the arrow tip stats

 

With infinite arrows everyone is using the exact same thing

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Finite arrows is not a very attractive mechanic for a reason.  It adds an additional condition for a class to be able to function in combat.  In summary, it feels unfair to need to gather arrows when a melee player only needs a single sword to become viable for combat.  This is a strong argument, and I can't really argue against it.

 

Swords will take damage and break/need repair. Bows will take a lot less damage and break/need repair much less often.

 

There you go, argued against it. Didn't even have to try hard.

I'm pretty sure that non-bow archetypes will not be able to just pick up and a bow and use it.

As long as they have the prerequisites, they can. It has been stated.

I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I like like finite ammo! 

 

Infinite ammo makes bows feel like laser repeaters with  wonky string-pull-triggers.

 

I wouldnt mind quivers and bullet bags to go with it, for attack speed and/or inventory management bonuses to them.

 

Abilities should use up ammo too, so we see less or no abilities like "rain of arrows", those always felt stupid from a single archer anyway.

 

As for balance between melee and ranged ( myself I dont mind ranged and spell classes being a little bit more demanding to play ) ammo management could be balanced against repairs and replacement of armor, as melee classes can be expected to take more direct hits.

 

 

 

(So yeah,I agree with previous poster I guess :P )

Edited by husdjursfogel
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@Homun: exactly.

 

Too many PVPers are focusing on the combat and not the big picture. How do you crush your foes best? By capturing or destroying their means to rearm. Infinite ammo does not fit the theme of this game.

 

Yes, it's tedious and unfair. But resource gathering is a pillar of this game. It's unfair the centaur has four legs, too. Don't worry, these Devs will make playing an archer fun, even if you have to manage your shots. Each archetype will have its own hurdles.

Kickstarter Backer #1070

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Or to put it another way: this is not a battle game, it's a war game. That is, logistics.

 

It's not enough to beat your foes in battle, you must also beat them by preventing them from even fighting back in the future. That's what it means to crush.

 

Infinite ammo does not fit this game.

Kickstarter Backer #1070

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Finite ammo and reagents for spells.  I like it for the immersion as well as other reasons.

 

As was said in a past thread about this, melee has to deal with armor repair and it's more expensive than ranged.  This give ranged something in exchange for being able to do most of their damage without being hit, gives them something else to have to plan for and prevents them from just spamming their ranged attack button in hopes of hitting something.

Tanom of the WhiteWalkers

 

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One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that this doesn't need to be completely binary.

 

Assuming that there will be ranged weapons and/or munitions and/or quivers/pouches with enhancements of various sorts, why can't one of those possible enhancements be something that turns the ammunition infinite?

 

Thus if you utterly despise having to manage your ammo, you don't have to.  But in doing so you'll be giving up other tactical options.

 

Assuming also that there will be grade tiers to these things, then it's possible that the higher tiers will be able to make "better" things infinite, but only things of lesser tiers.  The result is that the best ammunition is always limited, thus requiring thought as to how/when it's used.

 

This is all theory, based on various assumptions about how other parts of the game will work: resource gathering & management, looting, equipment maintenance, magic, campaigns, etc.  Based on what I've seen and heard about these other systems, I think defaulting to finite ammo will be the best fit, but that's just speculation.

 

I'm impatient for Alpha 2!

 

EDIT: Punctuation.

Edited by buc0727

soli deo gloria

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Finite ammo and reagents for spells.  I like it for the immersion as well as other reasons.

 

As was said in a past thread about this, melee has to deal with armor repair and it's more expensive than ranged.  This give ranged something in exchange for being able to do most of their damage without being hit, gives them something else to have to plan for and prevents them from just spamming their ranged attack button in hopes of hitting something.

Are melee the only ones that have to deal with armor repairs in Crowfall?

 

Are there even armor repair in the game?

Because, crafting wise, it might be smart not to have it.

 

If there is repair in CF, does it have to cost more for melee to repair? Or is that just a hunch you have from another game?

Will melee die more?

We can't tank and spank in a pvp game.

Will mages die more?

Do we even have currency or are we making it in the game?

If we DO have currency, can we freely bring it into campaigns? Where are we buying things in the campaigns. Who are taking our moneys?

 

You arguments are based on assumptions and as such are not very valid, sorry.

 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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