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Make Arrows An Item


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I think that base ammo should be infinite but they could add special arrows that would be finite and had to be crafted. Also could make similar upgrades for other weapons.

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Finite. Everything revolves around resources, and that should include ammo. Obviously casters should have some other way to attack also, like melee attacks, but giving infinite ammo removes and entire

There's many pros and cons to both Infinite and Finite ammo systems.    We have an idea on which path we are going go down, but this is a topic we've been discussing since the early days of Crowfall

It's amusing how "hardcore" PVPers get squishy when it's suggested that ammo is finite. Everything in Crowfall is resource limited. Your sword is going to dull and break. Your armor is going to rend a

Are melee the only ones that have to deal with armor repairs in Crowfall?

 

Are there even armor repair in the game?

Because, crafting wise, it might be smart not to have it.

 

If there is repair in CF, does it have to cost more for melee to repair? Or is that just a hunch you have from another game?

Will melee die more?

We can't tank and spank in a pvp game.

Will mages die more?

Do we even have currency or are we making it in the game?

If we DO have currency, can we freely bring it into campaigns? Where are we buying things in the campaigns. Who are taking our moneys?

 

You arguments are based on assumptions and as such are not very valid, sorry.

 

Are there even armor repair in the game?

If gear can be repaired, armor will be repairable.

 

If there is repair in CF, does it have to cost more for melee to repair? Or is that just a hunch you have from another game?

If gear can be repaired in Crowfall, regardless of type, in this case armor, it better cost resources to repair, and it will.  Crowfall is a game of strategy after all, resources are not free, if you want to maintain an armor resource, then you must convert raw resources into battle resources, in this case, metal to armor.

 

Will melee die more?

Ideally yes, since they are the ones volunteering to die first.  Now sadly not all archers are very bright, and not all enemies too slow or passive, so there will be cases where you might see an archer not taking careful positioning and being surrounded and slaughtered.

 

We can't tank and spank in a pvp game.

I don't know what this means.

 

Do we even have currency or are we making it in the game?

Crowfall has a barter economy.  We decide what's the currency.  No standard gold currency.  We can only take as many resources outside of a Campaign as the export rules will allow us.

 

We are not working purely on assumptions here.  While many things have still not been decided.  The major theme of the game being strategy and conquest is confirmed.  The economy will be barter based (Which says a lot about this game).  The Campaigns are finite.  And this game is meant to cater to players who want2crush, not players who want convenience.  Crowfall has the means to support these features, there is no doubt about it in my mind.

 

Now don't forget.  Crowfall's Campaign feature allows for different Campaigns to support different rulesets, so we might see finite and infinite arrow rulesets running in parallel to each other.  We are not limited to a single ruleset.

How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Are there even armor repair in the game?

 

Sorry, maybe repair will not be in the game but  we will have to deal with item decay in Crowfall.  Usually, decay is done during combat when the items are hit and when you die.  These are both areas that melee will deal with a lot more than ranged.

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I am gonna have to fall on the infinite side of the fence on this one. It's just too hard to balance finite ammo in a multiplayer game. Both when it comes to time vs. money/resources and when it comes to pure gameplay. I would much rather that they work on the overall balance and gameplay then to try to solve the, so far, unsolvable balancing act of finite ammo.

 

I understand the economy/crafting argument, but there is absolutely no reason why this need couldn't just be filled by something else that would benefit all classes.

 

I understand the thematic argument, but the theme of a game should never trump gameplay. Realism doesn't really serve any purpose in a fantasy setting anyways. There is a number of ways they could explain it without taking away from the concept or the lore of the game. Besides even finite ammo often ends up being just as unrealistic as infinite.

 

I have played an archer/ranger character in every game that I have played, at least as long as it available in said game. Finite arrows never add anything to the overall gameplay and more often than not it subtracts from it greatly. I was personally part of the forum-movement that removed much of the need for consumable arrows in EQ2 and when we started that movement it was all about balance. To me, it still is.

 

Yeah sure ArtCraft have said that they don't want to focus too much on balance, but I am sure they want the classes to be somewhat balanced. There are a couple of problems that finite arrows throw into that mix. Problems that I feel haven't really been addressed to the degree I am comfortable with by the people that want them in the game. Therefore I bring the following points.

 

- Realism.

I don't know how many of you have played archers, but in most games I have played it is conceivable that an archer will use 10-20 thousand arrows a day. This alone is highly unrealistic, but it is common in any game where combat is part of the gameplay focus. So what about weight, inventory space and resources? How many arrows is it realistic to actually be carrying in real life? I would say about 10-20 arrows. That clearly wouldn't work. How many resources would you need to craft 10-20 thousand of arrows? the equivalent of 1 sharpening stone? That wouldn't be realistic and I will get further into that argument in a bit. So which realism aspect is more important? Which is more easily explained by game concepts and lore? Well you know what I think. Whats your reasoning?

 

- Crafting and Economy.

Yes we want crafting to matter and we want the player drive economy to drive the market. However how would you make the crafting of ammo gainful enough that people would actually do it? See in any market either player driven or not, it is the time vs. money/resources that decide what people are willing to craft. Basically would crafting ammo be gainful vs. crafting something else. Wouldn't it be better for said crafter to create something that every class could use? In every game I have played people would just stop making ammo because the gain was not worth the effort. How would you make it so that it was? 

 

-Ranged vs. Melee or Gameplay balance vs. Item balance?

I understand this argument well. Ranged characters need to be penalized for their range so that melee is viable. However I think there are far better and more enjoyable ways to do this. Which I also think many games have already proven that it is possible to do so. Wouldn't it be both more fun and more interesting if this was balanced within the actual classes themselves. Instead of some miniscule detail like arrow usage? Wouldn't melee characters rather be able to deal with the problem of a ranged character within their own abilities rather than wait and hope they run out of ammo?

 

-Variety or Multiple types of ammo

Sure different types of ammo and damage types could be neat. However it just adds one more element that is hard balance and doesn't actually add anything real to the gameplay other than one more level to the meta game. As most end game MMO players can agree with, be it Pve or pvp. The meta game drives way more than people will admit and different ammo types wouldn't actually add much variety at all because in the end everyone would just get whatever is better. Again, I would rather see them add variety through interesting archetypes and discipline choices rather than something as miniscule as an arrow or bullet. Something so miniscule that it probably wont affect the game enough to make a dent in either play-style nor strategy, which hopefully and more than likely variety in archetypes and disciplines will do.

 

-Decay - Timesink vs. Gameplay or Tedious vs. Fun.

In Eq2 it used to be normal for archers to use over 60% of their game time farming resources, just to get arrows. Sure that is one example, but how do you balance that? Is someone that uses 60% of their game time just farming to be able to play their class 60% more powerful? No that wouldn't be much fun for the other players. Well what if you only had to spend 10% of game time farming. Should you be 10% more powerful then? Still not that fun for the other players. So what normally happens is that those people that have to spend any percentage of their game time farming just to play their class on the same level as the other players. They are just that. On the same level as the other players. Is that fair? Ok so everything doesn't have to be 100% fair in every situation. But we are not talking about combat balance where f. ex a Sorcerer or Mage has the potential for a lot of damage and therefore can withstand less damage. No we are talking about just being able to do what your class or character or archetype in this particular instance was designed to do. Decay is already confirmed to be in the game. We don't really know how that is to be implemented, but I don't see any reason to penalize some players more than other players in that regard.

 

 

I am not saying that it isn't possible to make finite or consumable ammo balanced and fun in a game. It is however very hard, I have never seen it, and from my personal experience they would have to think way more out of the box than what has been laid out in this thread so far.

 

I could get behind the idea of an ammo slot where you equip a decaying ammo item. However this would still be a compromise. I just don't think it is worth spending development time on something like this just to appease some players, which would already feel this was a compromise.

 

Infinite ammo might not be the absolute best solution to this problem. But it is in my opinion the best yet and much easier for the developers, both from a time perspective and a balance perspective.

Edited by RabbitFly

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I am actually swinging in favour of infinite - which might be a surprise for someone usually so pro-crafting.

 

To counter balance this though, all items in the game should take durability damage requiring replacement - my argument is that bows also take durability damage just like anything else and this can be equated as "running out of arrows". Basically we're rolling the price of ammo and the bow into one thing without making archers have to worry about whether they have ammunition with them.

 

That said, I do absolutely support finite special arrows which add DoT's, fire damage, ice damage, etc. 

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Usually in games where there's no healers or very limited healing, it ends up with the majority of people being ranged because that means you can kite in fights and extend the amount of time you live.

 

Also, it's simply 10x better to be a ranged for siege fights(standing ontop of a keep wall and shooting at people, standing at the bottom of the keep door and shooting back, etc.)

 

I think it's pretty safe to say that the main combat won't be melee focused.

That sounds great until that wall, your standing on, crumbles and you die.

 

 

Also ranged will be a liability with friendly fire.

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Finite!!

 

It adds to the player looting aspect of Crowfall!

 

You won't carry 10,000 arrows or spell reagents, if you lose them when you die!

 

Adds more realism and planning to the game!

Plus it will add to crafting/gathering demand!!!

Plus, it will add to crafting/gathering demand!

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Question.

 

Can you track an arrow in flight, that gets affected by the elements, having it spang off some armor, then fall to the ground, if it is not a database item? If it isn't a finite "thing"?

 

I wouldn't want to give up flight mechanics just to get infinite ammo.

I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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It's a matter of entropy equality.

 

If all items, including weapons, experience degradation as a necessary part of the economy, then you're logically going to need bows and crossbows that also experience that entropy.

 

So we have a category of weapons (ranged) that effectively suffer double entropy. Your bow takes damage through use or death mechanics, in addition to base entropy as the result of ammunition loss.

 

This means that weapons that use ammo are effectively penalized twice, unless we require all weapons to use ammo. So sure, you could require shaprening stones, etc. for melee weapons, but if those mechanics aren't extremely similar in function (e.g. your sword stops working when you run out of sharpening regs, despite the fact that it's a perfectly intact sword) then you're looking at a balancing problem that necessitates that harder to maintain weapons award a higher reward for using them.

 

The other option here is to say that ranged weapons don't experience the same degradation as melee weapons, which screws up the crafting economy. You can't simply specialize in crafting ranged weapons because there's a far lower demand for ranged weapons, and in stead are forced to move over to ammo to supplement that crafting income.

 

It's an additional annoyance factor that doesn't really add much to the game when it's a binary switch. It's like being told you can't use a sword because you're out of sharpening stones.

 

When it's a soft mechanic, however, it can be really interesting while achieving parity for all weapon types. Dragon Age Origins had such a system, and it worked out pretty well. All ranged weapons had an infinite stock of basic ammo, as well as an ammo equipment slot. The ammo slot was used for finite special arrows, and similar mechanics existed for melee weapons in the form of poisons or oils.

 

I think this is a much more interesting addition to the economy. Using a "stack of fire arrows" or "one sharpening stone" have effectively the same degree of entropy because they decay at the same rate of one strike per ammuntion without completely locking builds that choose to specialize one way or another out of the fight.

 

Having certain abilities, magic or otherwise, require consumable regs in this manner is fine as well. Maybe you can't fire "explosive shot" without fire arrows, or "Cleave" without a shapening stone, but the majority of abilities require only the basic weapon to be present.

 

As for siege mechanics, I firmly believe that siege mechanics should require a certain allocation of resources from the perspective of attackers that makes them meaningful economic decisions. Requiring siege ammo is a good way to do this, and because the mechanics of siege weapons are separate from those of a player's build (you maybe have some siege specializations, but I highly doubt we have the option of characters who are only ever useful for anything during a siege) then it makes perfect sense to use ammunition requirements as a counterbalance to the material requirements of the walls and buildings they are firing upon.

Edited by PopeUrban

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I am gonna have to fall on the infinite side of the fence on this one. It's just too hard to balance finite ammo in a multiplayer game. Both when it comes to time vs. money/resources and when it comes to pure gameplay. I would much rather that they work on the overall balance and gameplay then to try to solve the, so far, unsolvable balancing act of finite ammo.

 

> unsolvable

Maybe for you. If there is a solution and we don't try to find it because it's hard... I hope you will never have a job with responsabilities

 

I understand the economy/crafting argument, but there is absolutely no reason why this need couldn't just be filled by something else that would benefit all classes.

 

If the personalisation of the archetype classes with subclasses is viable, it opens a lot for the balance. ( Even if they said they didn't wanted a balanced gameplay, but more roles )

 

I understand the thematic argument, but the theme of a game should never trump gameplay. Realism doesn't really serve any purpose in a fantasy setting anyways. There is a number of ways they could explain it without taking away from the concept or the lore of the game. Besides even finite ammo often ends up being just as unrealistic as infinite.

 

You are totally transforming the concept of realism into your favor. When we tkal about realism, we talk about physical realism. Unless there is a magic spell or something, arrows should not be infinite.

 

I have played an archer/ranger character in every game that I have played, at least as long as it available in said game. Finite arrows never add anything to the overall gameplay and more often than not it subtracts from it greatly. I was personally part of the forum-movement that removed much of the need for consumable arrows in EQ2 and when we started that movement it was all about balance. To me, it still is.

 

And in that game you could use a bow with a druid? If there is only 1 class, of course it adds nothing... ( like the warlock in Wow, that had to farm i don't know waht, or necromancer in L2, who had to farm bones... )

 

Yeah sure ArtCraft have said that they don't want to focus too much on balance, but I am sure they want the classes to be somewhat balanced. There are a couple of problems that finite arrows throw into that mix. Problems that I feel haven't really been addressed to the degree I am comfortable with by the people that want them in the game. Therefore I bring the following points.

- Realism.

I don't know how many of you have played archers, but in most games I have played it is conceivable that an archer will use 10-20 thousand arrows a day. This alone is highly unrealistic, but it is common in any game where combat is part of the gameplay focus. So what about weight, inventory space and resources? How many arrows is it realistic to actually be carrying in real life? I would say about 10-20 arrows. That clearly wouldn't work. How many resources would you need to craft 10-20 thousand of arrows? the equivalent of 1 sharpening stone? That wouldn't be realistic and I will get further into that argument in a bit. So which realism aspect is more important? Which is more easily explained by game concepts and lore? Well you know what I think. Whats your reasoning?

 

In games where arrows were infinite? Ofc you spamed those arrows! And more if you go onto arena pvp

 

You are speculating on the way and dificulty to craft arrows. We know nothing about crafting eficiency yet. That argument has no fundament.

 

 

 

 

- Crafting and Economy.

Yes we want crafting to matter and we want the player drive economy to drive the market. However how would you make the crafting of ammo gainful enough that people would actually do it? See in any market either player driven or not, it is the time vs. money/resources that decide what people are willing to craft. Basically would crafting ammo be gainful vs. crafting something else. Wouldn't it be better for said crafter to create something that every class could use? In every game I have played people would just stop making ammo because the gain was not worth the effort. How would you make it so that it was? 

 

Againa speculating. In runescape there was an arrow comerce very prolific. You argument is invalid

 

 

 

-Ranged vs. Melee or Gameplay balance vs. Item balance?

I understand this argument well. Ranged characters need to be penalized for their range so that melee is viable. However I think there are far better and more enjoyable ways to do this. Which I also think many games have already proven that it is possible to do so. Wouldn't it be both more fun and more interesting if this was balanced within the actual classes themselves. Instead of some miniscule detail like arrow usage? Wouldn't melee characters rather be able to deal with the problem of a ranged character within their own abilities rather than wait and hope they run out of ammo?

 

 

Yeah, maybe using a shield or dodging, or deflecting skill... There lots of way of dealing with it, that will add to the gameplay.

 

 

 

-Variety or Multiple types of ammo

Sure different types of ammo and damage types could be neat. However it just adds one more element that is hard balance and doesn't actually add anything real to the gameplay other than one more level to the meta game. As most end game MMO players can agree with, be it Pve or pvp. The meta game drives way more than people will admit and different ammo types wouldn't actually add much variety at all because in the end everyone would just get whatever is better. Again, I would rather see them add variety through interesting archetypes and discipline choices rather than something as miniscule as an arrow or bullet. Something so miniscule that it probably wont affect the game enough to make a dent in either play-style nor strategy, which hopefully and more than likely variety in archetypes and disciplines will do.

 

 

Better quality sword: more damage

 

Why not better quality arrow: more damage?

 

 

-Decay - Timesink vs. Gameplay or Tedious vs. Fun.

In Eq2 it used to be normal for archers to use over 60% of their game time farming resources, just to get arrows. Sure that is one example, but how do you balance that? Is someone that uses 60% of their game time just farming to be able to play their class 60% more powerful? No that wouldn't be much fun for the other players. Well what if you only had to spend 10% of game time farming. Should you be 10% more powerful then? Still not that fun for the other players. So what normally happens is that those people that have to spend any percentage of their game time farming just to play their class on the same level as the other players. They are just that. On the same level as the other players. Is that fair? Ok so everything doesn't have to be 100% fair in every situation. But we are not talking about combat balance where f. ex a Sorcerer or Mage has the potential for a lot of damage and therefore can withstand less damage. No we are talking about just being able to do what your class or character or archetype in this particular instance was designed to do. Decay is already confirmed to be in the game. We don't really know how that is to be implemented, but I don't see any reason to penalize some players more than other players in that regard.

 

 

Are you voting to make this game comode for the guys who can pass little time on the screen, so those who invest more time, will have the same gains than those who doesn't?

Is this comodity? " I only want to farm 10 mins and have lots of gains", yeah, hello strategy

I am not saying that it isn't possible to make finite or consumable ammo balanced and fun in a game. It is however very hard, I have never seen it, and from my personal experience they would have to think way more out of the box than what has been laid out in this thread so far.

 

Indeed...

 

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Honestly, I think this is going to have to come down to, "how does it feel?"

 

I can see both sides, but don't understand how some people are saying that finite ammo is all of a sudden going to make a huge burden on people after they are so called "crushed". So arrows are going to be super hard to craft, and cost tons of resources? Are all classes going to have some sort of melee focus? Honestly, I think that would be awesome, but with no information on the archetypes, I just don't know.

 

I mean, if your class relies on arrows for ALL of its attacks, I don't see how that is fair if there is a heavy cost to create the ammunition. Therefore, the cost of the ammunition has to be relatively small. Therefore, it is probably not going to matter all that much. Again, we will just have to see. I like the realism aspect of requiring ammo, but also find it to be more of a pain than it is worth in games I have played in the past. Needing to trivially create arrows every day does not sound like much fun.

 

Then again, I would be all for having all classes participate more in melee combat. To have ranged attacks start off engagements, and then everyone charging into to finish things off. Just like the movies! Also, if there is going to be friendly fire in the game, it will also put a hamper on ranged attacks, which would most likely be a good thing. That is the largest problem I have with ranged, as you literally just spam attacks without abandon, because your friendlies can't be hurt.

 

There is just a lot more questions and unknowns than most people are bringing up. It isn't about just logistics, or warfare, or realism or convenience. There is a lot to say about "how it feels," and we will have to cross that bridge when we get there, IMO. Some great discussion going on here though, good show!

Edited by MattVid

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I would not mind having finite amounts of ammo if the ammo could be crafted with specific stats.  Maybe arrows can be crafted to have better precision at longer ranges or be enchanted with magic based abilities.  However, a quiver should not be limited in how much one can carry and should not go against any other weight limitations that would hinder the class compared to non-ammo required classes.

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Make it finite.  And while you're at it add material components to spells and upkeep for melee weapons.

 

Keeps demand for crafters up, adds a logistical component to winning wars(more leadership and organization required then mindless zerging), and forces players to vary their play(even bandits need to take a break from KoS PvP to gather/repair) all in one go.

 

 

Also opens up the option of rare valuable ammo too costly for regular use, jealously hoarded for special occasions and emergencies.  

 

See this guy gets it. I don't see why people keep saying it adds nothing when adding ammo is literally the definition of adding something...

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I'm thinking that finite is going to be the rule with just about everything. I have heard mention of a food and eating mechanic in the game as well. Basically in order to really get a war march going you will need to load up on food and supplies for your whole war band. Multiple people will probably carry arrows and food for people and maybe a caravan will be rolled out with back up supply for everybody to pull from.

 

Also what if swords need to be sharpened but bows never break? Then the limit to swords is maintain it properly or lose it and bows will have ammo upkeep. Just a balance thought for those on the fence.

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Maybe for you. If there is a solution and we don't try to find it because it's hard... I hope you will never have a job with responsabilities

 

Now now. No need for personal attacks. It was just a figure of speech.

 

 

If the personalisation of the archetype classes with subclasses is viable, it opens a lot for the balance. ( Even if they said they didn't wanted a balanced gameplay, but more roles )

 

I don't see how this addresses my point? Please clarify.

 

 

You are totally transforming the concept of realism into your favor. When we tkal about realism, we talk about physical realism. Unless there is a magic spell or something, arrows should not be infinite.

 

I don't agree with that. My examples of realism were all directly related to the case at hand. And were further explained later in the post. Which you did not address. I am not saying that arrows shouldn't be physically in the game. As far as I know. No one does. Not just part of the inventory and crafting systems.

 

 

And in that game you could use a bow with a druid? If there is only 1 class, of course it adds nothing... ( like the warlock in Wow, that had to farm i don't know waht, or necromancer in L2, who had to farm bones... )

 

Actually, you could. It just wasn't viable. However that doesn't really matter. No matter how many classes or players that use the bow the balance is still affected. Now I am not very versed in WOW classes and consumables, however the necromancer in L2 did not have to use bones for every attack. Which makes it a whole different thing. I am not saying remove all consumables, again no one does. I am saying making a consumable that is mandatory for gameplay and that only affects some players is unbalancing, unfair and introduces unnecessary timesinks/grinding into the gameplay.

 

 

In games where arrows were infinite? Ofc you spamed those arrows! And more if you go onto arena pvp

 

You are speculating on the way and dificulty to craft arrows. We know nothing about crafting eficiency yet. That argument has no fundament.

 

Now who is assuming? No I am not talking about games where arrows were infinite. How would I know how many arrows I used then. I am actually talking from experience where I played games with finite ammo. F. ex Rangers in EQ2 used to have almost half their inventory dedicated to arrows.

 

Yes I am speculating about the way and difficulty to craft arrows. Then again almost everyone that posts anything on these forums are. So I don't really see how that should matter. We are having a speculative discussion, both sides of the argument are speculating. I am using examples to try to make you understand my side of the argument. Anyways. The thing is. Make crafting ammo too hard and the cost of ammo becomes too high for players to buy it or invest time in it, making ranged classes more undesirable. Make it too easy and the price of ammo will plummet, but so will the crafters willing to make it. As I mentioned. Most players in MMOs do thing on a gain vs. time basis. If they can make more money crafting swords, they will craft swords. I am not saying that is the rule, but it is very common.

 

 

 

Againa speculating. In runescape there was an arrow comerce very prolific. You argument is invalid

If the ammo commerce worked great in Runescape then that would probably be closer to the exception rather the rule. However. If it worked that great in runescape, maybe you should explain why it did? Cause I have very little experience with Runescape.

 

 

Yeah, maybe using a shield or dodging, or deflecting skill... There lots of way of dealing with it, that will add to the gameplay.

 

Which was my point exactly. What I was asking is would you rather have them balance the gameplay with archetype abilities and features or with inventory management and crafting costs? Cause personally I would prefer the first, not the latter.

 

 

Better quality sword: more damage

 

Why not better quality arrow: more damage?

 

Why not better quality arrows and guns: more damage?

 

 

Are you voting to make this game comode for the guys who can pass little time on the screen, so those who invest more time, will have the same gains than those who doesn't?

Is this comodity? " I only want to farm 10 mins and have lots of gains", yeah, hello strategy

I am not saying that it isn't possible to make finite or consumable ammo balanced and fun in a game.

 

 

Well I think you are trying to put words into my mouth. I am definitely not asking them to make this game casual or easy. That is not the point I was trying to make. I can understand that someone would think that. However. Try to bear with me. Gathering resources in itself is not the tedious part. You have something to gain. No what breaks the mold is first and foremost. Having to gather resources in a staggering amount just to function as a character in the game. And secondly Having to do that when the character right next to you doesn't. Again it's about balance. Lets say f. ex that they implemented the same system for melee, as some people here have suggested, then one would need f. ex a sharpening stone for every swing of the sword. How many swings of a sword do you think a melee characters does in a day? I think in the 10s of thousands. Well then balance would be intact, but is it worth it? Sure it would create another demand that crafters could fulfill. However as I said. Creating crafting demand can be done many ways. Why does it have to be ammo? If adding ammo just to create crafter demand, then that I believe that is a very one sided design decision. Wouldn't it be better to create crafter demand with something that adds something substantial to the game, rather than adding it to something that would be there anyway?

 

 

Indeed...

 

I am not sure I totally get what point your trying to make there. I believe you are implying that I am lacking the ability to think outside the box. The thing is. I am one of the people advocating for infinite ammo, not the other way around. Why should I try to come up with a solution to a problem that isn't part of the problem on my side of the argument? Yea sure, I could do that, just for the greater good. The thing is I sincerely believe that infinite ammo is for the greater good and I just haven't seen an argument that really tries to address the issues I have put forth. However, once we start addressing these issues, instead of just undermining them. Then I will throw my thinking hat on.

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Here are my thoughts on the matter from the Mount And Blade Ideas  http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/3493-mount-and-blade-ideas/

 

 

Don't know if someone said this but with everything needing replacement even your sword it only makes scents that there would be a limit on arrows.

 

 

OTR, on 02 Mar 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

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Don't know if someone said this but with everything needing replacement even your sword it only makes scents that there would be a limit on arrows.

Not arguing for or against ammo here.

 

I dont feel like those two have any logical connection.

 

A sword can break, so we should have arrows?

 

Wouldn't it be: A sword can break, so a bow should be able to also?

 

Cirolle, on 02 Mar 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:snapback.png

Not arguing for or against ammo here.

 

I dont feel like those two have any logical connection.

 

A sword can break, so we should have arrows?

 

Wouldn't it be: A sword can break, so a bow should be able to also?

I have no doubt that your bow will break also. The whole point is that things in this game are not permanent. Your equipment will get worn down and break. You will have to replace your sword, shield, bow and other things. But you will have and magical unlimited supply of arrows (Probably the single most used piece of equipment by anyone in a game like this as it is generally a single use item) that you will never have to refill. That is a logical disconnection to me.

 

Sorry for all the doubles. I've never done much on Forums before.

Edited by OTR

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I'm really liking the finite vs infinite points!!

 

I would take hardcore mounts with finite ammo. It would be so interesting.

 

Maybe ammo could be crafted in bulk such as 250 at a time, etc.

 

Also Eve Online has finite ammo. Save for Amarr t1. And it was great to out last someone because you had more ammo.

 

Personal attacks aren't cool though.

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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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