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Is RNG desirable in Crowfall?


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With all of the charater skill previews, I noticed that each of them had some RNG element associated with their kit. Confessor has mana regen, Centaur has rear kick, and Knight knocks down people who he blocks. While these are all cool thematic abilities that fit the characters, do we really want these kinds of abilities in the game? From a competitive standpoint this may be a step in the wrong direction.

 

Losing a keep because a Knight got off a lucky block would feel really bad for the losing side.

 

On the contrary, fun proc effects can make the game feel more exciting and fast paced.

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"RNG is part of MMOs" is not really a valid argument. It's part of a lot of MMOs.... but not because the games need it.. it's simply a pattern people are following somewhat habitually.   The origin

If Crowfall's combat is to be skill based, it should not have RNG. Skill based combat means analyzing a situation and choosing the best course of action to turn that situation in your favor. To foster

Why do you want random crits and random weapon procs? I don't understand the desire for these types of mechanics. You can make the game infinitely more interesting by making critical hits and weapon a

I believe you would presumably be able to see when the knight is blocking, since it's an active skill/ability that they use. In the same article, they do state that although they want it to be punishing to attack a blocking knight (meaning you should be able to tell prior to the attack?) some archetypes would get 'block-breaking' skills. Not exactly random here.

 

As for legionnaire, their kick isn't random, it's a skill on a cooldown that you can't use unless there's someone to kick behind you. It was stated to work like your recovery move (retaliate) in that it's hidden unless it can be used. Not really random here either.

 

For Confessor, this is the only random I can remember so far, except other classes (legionnaire for one, and presumably other supports as well) have shown the ability to recover its party members' mana, so how much the RNG will affect the battle is questionable. Sure it could be annoying to not proc it often, but it procs on every hit you throw, so it should at least proc fairly often.

 

Of course, considering how it's prealpha, there'll probably be a lot of number tweaks as well as design tweaks to come. Maybe there'll be a lot of RNG based skills, maybe there won't be.

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I agree with VIKINGNAIL that is more likely to make gameplay more interesting.  At least it is not a random AOE effect.   We will see when we get the test drive.

Edited by Tahru

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I like a bit of RNG, nothing too major just a bit to make you smile sometimes...
Example if you hit 50 damage every hit with ability A you dont even think about it but if RNG is involved and you go hit somone for a massive hit of 66 it might give that moment of shock/fun.

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I don't think RNG kills competition, infact, games like League of legends and hearthstone (which are very different than crowfall, but arguably the most competitive games out there) are influenced by RNG.  In my opinion, I think it adds a bit of spice to a game! Think about a game with no RNG, no critical strikes, ect, I feel like while it would be more consistent, the no RNG style would make things a little less fun! The feeling you get when you score a lucky crit, or when one of your abilities hits all of the targets you had hoped is one of the best feelings a gamer can experience, I would hate to see this mechanic not be a part of Crowfall.  

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I agree. RNG IS fun, especially for the guy who scores a big crit or a lucky stream of crits. However, my main concern is making many situations binary based completely on RNG and not skill ie if I crit I win, if I don't I lose. Playing a spec that needs crits to perform feels absolutely terrible for those who aren't lucky.

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Hopefully it will be more about the "Wow look at what just happened" type of feeling, not the I need this to happen to have any chance to compete. Or if you are really good you have your normal style of play but you always consider the possibility. Like fighting someone at a certain angle just in case rear kick goes off and sends someone where you would want them to go.

Edited by oberon
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I agree. RNG IS fun, especially for the guy who scores a big crit or a lucky stream of crits. However, my main concern is making many situations binary based completely on RNG and not skill ie if I crit I win, if I don't I lose. Playing a spec that needs crits to perform feels absolutely terrible for those who aren't lucky.

If the game has a good enough skill curve a crit or two would not really get in the way of good players... adds some spice but is not completely overwhelming. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Eh I am not really for RNG in combat. Unless my opponent outplayed me then when I activate a skill, it should work. The only RNG in combat is crit percentage... since this is not a PvE game or Raiding there is no need for evasion percentage, block percentage, Hit chance( Maybe if the huge AoE meteors.... make it channeled and they rain down at random locations in an area) because you are no longer fighting static bosses or mobs.  Now if they decide to go the route of giving the option for target assist there should be a hit chance and lower damage compared to someone using manual aiming.   I personally don't even like RNG in crafting, but I see the need to keep high end items rare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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Eh I am not really for RNG in combat. Unless my opponent outplayed me then when I activate a skill, it should work. The only RNG in combat is crit percentage... since this is not a PvE game or Raiding there is no need for evasion percentage, block percentage, Hit chance( Maybe if the huge AoE meteors.... make it channeled and they rain down at random locations in an area) because you are no longer fighting static bosses or mobs.  Now if they decide to go the route of giving the option for target assist there should be a hit chance and lower damage compared to someone using manual aiming.   I personally don't even like RNG in crafting, but I see the need to keep high end items rare.

 

RNG is needed for all those things; block and evasion percentage, hit chance, especially in a "PvP" game. It'll be a very boring game if we all knew how much we hit and if we hit the opponent at all. It's a little ignorant to believe that it's not required. The only place that RNG is not required is in crafting. 

 

In terms of raiding, it might still be in the game in the form of raiding opponent's point of interest. If they add target assistance then it was a stupid mistake because it's removing a whole lot of potential for player individual skill and interaction. 

 

Also, I find it funny (  :lol: ) people still think this is a 100% PvP game. "Hello!" monsters are confirmed, you still need to fight them. You still need to gather resources... if I'm not mistaken that's player versus environment right there. 

Edited by zero2none
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RNG is needed for all those things; block and evasion percentage, hit chance, especially in a "PvP" game. It'll be a very boring game if we all knew how much we hit and if we hit the opponent at all. It's a little ignorant to believe that it's not required. The only place that RNG is not required is in crafting. 

 

In terms of raiding, it might still be in the game in the form of raiding opponent's point of interest. If they add target assistance then it was a stupid mistake because it's removing a whole lot of potential for player individual skill and interaction. 

 

Also, I find it funny (  :lol: ) people still think this is a 100% PvP game. "Hello!" monsters are confirmed, you still need to fight them. You still need to gather resources... if I'm not mistaken that's player versus environment right there. 

You are talking about an action MMO. This is inherently different from doing a raid boss with tab targeting and moving through your rotation. Skill is a major factor now in this game.... when an ability is fired and the target is within the reticule then it should hit.

 

How else are you going to bring skill into crafting? you cant.... because we cant physically make or simulate making gear. So to prevent rare items becoming not so rare.... there needs to be rng in crafting.

 

those monsters are supposed to be trivial.... its mainly a pvp game.

PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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You are talking about an action MMO. This is inherently different from doing a raid boss with tab targeting and moving through your rotation. Skill is a major factor now in this game.... when an ability is fired and the target is within the reticule then it should hit.

 

How else are you going to bring skill into crafting? you cant.... because we cant physically make or simulate making gear. So to prevent rare items becoming not so rare.... there needs to be rng in crafting.

 

those monsters are supposed to be trivial.... its mainly a pvp game.

Even CSGO, the most competitive fps esport going right now, which obviously has a heavy emphasis on aim... has built in rng to spice it up for players...

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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You are talking about an action MMO. This is inherently different from doing a raid boss with tab targeting and moving through your rotation. Skill is a major factor now in this game.... when an ability is fired and the target is within the reticule then it should hit.

 

How else are you going to bring skill into crafting? you cant.... because we cant physically make or simulate making gear. So to prevent rare items becoming not so rare.... there needs to be rng in crafting.

 

those monsters are supposed to be trivial.... its mainly a pvp game.

 

The way you prevent rare items is by making them hard to get and by making the resources take time to gather, not with RNG. I've had enough of RNG crafting in Archeage where 3/10 tries of making a piece of armour will actually work. It's a terrible concept. 

 

Yes they are trivial and yea it's mainly a pvp game, but there are still plenty of pve aspects (crafting, training skills, killing (not farming) monsters) in the game to make it not 100% pvp. I feel those that keep saying it's solely pvp will be slightly disappointed by release. 

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Even CSGO, the most competitive fps esport going right now, which obviously has a heavy emphasis on aim... has built in rng to spice it up for players...

 

Agreed, I've put in 500 hours into CSGO and there's a slight RNG aspect in shooting. The bullets rarely hit the same place twice in a row. 

So, by having the "ability to fire and it should hit every time.", it's going to make combat into a sort of DPS game instead of skill based; "lets see who can kill the other quicker."

Edited by zero2none
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The way you prevent rare items is by making them hard to get and by making the resources take time to gather, not with RNG. I've had enough of RNG crafting in Archeage where 3/10 tries of making a piece of armour will actually work. It's a terrible concept. 

 

Yes they are trivial and yea it's mainly a pvp game, but there are still plenty of pve aspects (crafting, training skills, killing (not farming) monsters) in the game to make it not 100% pvp. I feel those that keep saying it's solely pvp will be slightly disappointed by release. 

Archeage is a poor example of RNG.... you had like 6 different items coming from only 1.... so to upgrade that ring you needed to pray it upgraded into the right one.

 

Mobas are classified as PvP however they involve pve elements. Same with Crowfall. the main focus is pvp with a dash of PvE just to get the basics.

PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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random spread has become so common in the FPS genre, that it's no longer really an issue.

People have come to accept the little bit of randomness and overall, it doesn't really impact your aiming that much.

Noone here has mentioned that the first bullet has no random spread to it though. That's why tap-fire and burst control lets you off-set the effects of the RNG introduced to the game.

 

 

NONE of this though, means that rng should be present in Crowfall as well.

There is absolutely zero correlation.

 

"hurrdurr but this game has it" is not a valid argument, especially if the mentioned game is a completely different genre.

"But hurrdurr esports" no VN... no

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random spread has become so common in the FPS genre, that it's no longer really an issue.

People have come to accept the little bit of randomness and overall, it doesn't really impact your aiming that much.

Noone here has mentioned that the first bullet has no random spread to it though. That's why tap-fire and burst control lets you off-set the effects of the RNG introduced to the game.

 

 

NONE of this though, means that rng should be present in Crowfall as well.

There is absolutely zero correlation.

 

"hurrdurr but this game has it" is not a valid argument, especially if the mentioned game is a completely different genre.

"But hurrdurr esports" no VN... no

Actually CSGO has first bullet rng... oopsy...

 

And sorry but it's not like rng is new to mmorpgs... obviously in proper context I was pointing out that even games reliant on aim have rng... so crowfall having action combat isn't some perfect excuse not to have any rng. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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