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Celevra

Large Castle = $600?

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I'm gonna be a little disgruntled if the only difference between my KS castle and the store bought one is the skin. Especially if it doesn't even look better.

 

Thats the wrong perspective to look at my friend. If the KS Castle should look "better" than the 2015 Shop Castle, which you cant get through playing either, only by purchasing, what my dear friend should the castle look like you get through gameplay alone?

Should the person who doesnt know of Crowfall yet, or not having that much money really be punished by getting a "worse" looking Castle?

A person which really plays the game, enjoys it, and dives into it with fun and joy does have the very same claim of getting something he can admire, like someone who knows about this project and wants to support it and got the money to do so, i would dare say!

That is such a small childish way to look at things, this perspective you describe there, which ruins society and civilization since humankind exists.

In my case, I only support these guys cause i have trust in them. Trust that they will make a game which i am waiting, dreaming, hoping for for so many years. Trust that their vision and mine of such a game will harmonize. Trust that they will act justly to each and every player/person who likes what they are doing, and not treating the one person better than the other just cause they give them a bunch of cash. If i would want that, I would not play Crowfall but dive right into this amazing world before my door, where what you describe is actually called corruption and is everywhere in this world, each and every corner. And thats the very reason why I support them, because they are actually not like this in anyway and are aware of that fully. I was oberving this project quite a while, before i was involving myself into, because these people are great people i can trust and have faith in, i got no doubt about that. If people like these would be political to be voted they sure would have my vote. And so I am gonna join this adventure together with them, to fight the Hunger, the corruption in each and everyone of us back, and while we may not be victorious in the end, because there will always be corruption as long as humankind exists, we will very well set a remindable mark in the memory of Humankind, in the history of human civilzation itself, which will be reffered to by upcoming generations for decades, centurys and aeons. And while they will know about what enormous deed we fullbrought, they wont ever know how it felt, how it felt to go out, stand together, fight and see in the eye of the storm, they, at best, will only be able to imagine how it was, until they go there and stand tall and upward for what they believe and trust in theirselves. So dare you say such unthoughtful words my dear friend, because you arent even aware of what you are doing.

 

And thats why you should never say things which are an eyesore to me in a forum about something I am really soul and fire for!!!     *Nyyyaaaaahahahahahahhaa*

......I really overdid it again   >.>''

Long story short: Dont make the different versions of strongholds in this game look "better" or "worse" than the other, just "different". Like humans arent by default better or worse than the one or the other, just different.  But the ACE people are upstanding citizens of Friendship Kingdom and very well aware of that, I would say. Especially the one saving a cat on the highway.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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The idea is likely that you can skip "grinding" to better castles and such by buying the Building outright.

 

A steep price is required to keep the balance between those that farm for it and those that would buy it outright.

 

You want naturally more people to farm the resources for it (and in return participate a lot in the CW), then buying it outright from the cash shop.

 

This way you keep the exlusiveness from the higher tiers and give people even more intention to visit the CW.

 

After all the bigger Castles are supposed to be a group effort and something to look at and be proud about that your guild managed to craft it together.

 

Though that is just my thought on the topic.

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I guess one of my questions would be: What if your guild builds a Small Castle and then later needs to upgrade it to a Medium or Large? 

 

Would you need to destroy the existing one and loose all those resources? Would you need to build it on a different parcel of land and your always stuck with the old building? Or could you scavenge the materials from the old Castle and use them to start on building the new one? 

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I guess one of my questions would be: What if your guild builds a Small Castle and then later needs to upgrade it to a Medium or Large? 

 

Would you need to destroy the existing one and loose all those resources? Would you need to build it on a different parcel of land and your always stuck with the old building? Or could you scavenge the materials from the old Castle and use them to start on building the new one? 

 

Basically you answered your own question. You simply upgrade them. The parcel size remains the same. All the buildings have tiers:

  1. Small Castle
  2. Medium Castle
  3. Large Castle

Same applies to Keeps, Forts, etc.

 

From the FAQ:

 

ARE ALL OF THE STRONGHOLD PARCELS THE SAME SIZE AND SHAPE?

 

No. There is a progression of strongholds that determines the number and shape of contiguous cells.  

 

The progression is: Estate, Fort, Keep, Castle, Fortress, Citadel and Palace. For each of these types, there is a small, medium and large version.  Each tier of the same type will fit within the same footprint (i.e. “Tetris shape”).

 

If you upgrade to a Medium Keep, your parcel will get more occupancy and more buildable area.  It also upgrades cosmetically. The Large Keep does the same, becoming more useful and impressive than the Medium Keep. 

 

And remember, all three sizes of “keep” fit within the same footprint (i.e. the H-shaped Tetris piece). This was done so that you can upgrade a stronghold from small to medium to large of the same type without having to rearrange the surrounding resource land parcels.

Edited by Canth

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I understand that you can upgrade and they have the same footprint, I guess what i was wondering was how the mechanics of it would work.

 

For example, if you start with a Small Castle do you need to build up the difference in all the mats needed to make the Medium Castle and then apply the upgrade and "voila" the Small Castle instantly becomes a Medium Castle?

 

Or is there more of a tear down and re-build up process.

Edited by Dakyn

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I understand that you can upgrade and they have the same footprint, I guess what i was wondering was how the mechanics of it would work.

 

Unknown. But if you look at the Keep structure, the bigger versions are just an extension of the smaller ones. So I assume no tear down is needed, the extra part will just be build against the old one. How that will be graphically presented to us remains to be seen. I'm guessing a "pop" and there it is.


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Everyone could get those castles through gameplay... grinding, killing, thieving, mining... etc 

Play to win not Pay to win :D

I typically agree with this at launch with most games. However strictly the castle size I don't believe gives an advantage to PvP. You can collect relics when the game releases to enhance your character... I forget which building you need to store those.

 

In the development stage and people have 600$ to throw at Crowfall then that's awesome. We want to encourage ACE to make their  6 million goal with giving insights on the best way possible.

Edited by Vitalized

PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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I understand that you can upgrade and they have the same footprint, I guess what i was wondering was how the mechanics of it would work.

 

For example, if you start with a Small Castle do you need to build up the difference in all the mats needed to make the Medium Castle and then apply the upgrade and "voila" the Small Castle instantly becomes a Medium Castle?

 

Or is there more of a tear down and re-build up process.

Remember that EK systems are all going to be hand-me-downs from the campaign worlds. Do you imagine you're going to have to tear down your campaign stronghold before you can upgrade it to a larger size? That would not work too well.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

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Remember that EK systems are all going to be hand-me-downs from the campaign worlds. Do you imagine you're going to have to tear down your campaign stronghold before you can upgrade it to a larger size? That would not work too well.

 

I'll add to this and say you will need resources to upgrade.

Edited by purplestreak

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These are not designed to be individual structures. Their designed for guilds and communities to share and benefit from.

 

I don't appreciate the kind of extreme costs and sales associated with the game, but if you take something expensive like a castle and divide up its value among all the people it serves, than it may end up being more reasonable.

 

The problem is more so the real life cost and the fact that it's being financed toward an individual... Hopefully a working guild can achieve a large castle with a practical amount of shared effort.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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so I may have missed it but I cant find any info. Do we have any idea how large parcels actually are?

 

From the FAQ:

 

HOW ARE KINGDOMS LAID OUT, AND HOW BIG ARE THEY? IS IT LIKE A HOUSING INSTANCE?

 

Eternal Kingdoms are very large! Much bigger than a typical MMO housing instance. The map of every kingdom is divided into a square grid at different resolutions.

As far as buildings are concerned, the smallest unit of measure is a LOT. 

  • Each LOT is 8 meters by 8 meters in size.
  • Each SUPERLOT is 5 lots by 5 lots.
  • Each CELL is 5 superlots by 5 superlots.
  • Each SUPERCELL is 5 cells by 5 cells.
  • Each KINGDOM can be up to 5 supercells by 5 supercells.

(Note that the “supercell” and “superlot” designations are merely for convenience.  Buildings are sized in “lots” and land parcels are sized in “cells”).

 

Examples: 

  • A blacksmith shop might sit on 6 LOT footprint.
  • A dwarven keep might sit on a 7 CELL footprint. 

Both footprints can be any arrangement of square lots or cells. Think of them strung together like tiles or a long Tetris piece.

 

The other major difference between a kingdom and a housing instance is the concurrent player population. These are full MMO servers, so we expect them to support hundreds (if not a thousand+) concurrent players.

 

The whole Eternal Kingdom FAQ is worth a read, so I suggest you just do that.  ;) You can find it here: https://crowfall.com/#/faq/5542873718859c484f5af678

Edited by Canth

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The idea is likely that you can skip "grinding" to better castles and such by buying the Building outright.

 

A steep price is required to keep the balance between those that farm for it and those that would buy it outright.

 

You want naturally more people to farm the resources for it (and in return participate a lot in the CW), then buying it outright from the cash shop.

 

This way you keep the exlusiveness from the higher tiers and give people even more intention to visit the CW.

 

After all the bigger Castles are supposed to be a group effort and something to look at and be proud about that your guild managed to craft it together.

 

Though that is just my thought on the topic.

 

While i can concur with you there fully in the sense of your statement, i think the words "grinding" and "farming" are missplaced here. As these words are used for story-driven themepark MMOs, when the story is played through and everything explored, the terms grinding and farming are used for the "overlayed endgame" of the game, because the game isnt conceived to have an endgame or for an endgame, there is no endgame content/concept in fact. So they put in loops of endless repetitive stuff, which too can be enjoyable to do for some people if well made for sure. Crowfall on the opposite is an PvP focused MMO-roleplaying / real time strategy game, where there is no big story content to play through but the whole game is the endgame, right from the beginning, as strategy games dont know an endgame. So we arent farming or grinding in this game as we progress in it, to achieve success for getting ressources for our EKs, instead we are just playing the game. How its meant to be, you know? But as you have put grinding in " " i think you are aware of that yourself.

 

I am exited to see how it will work out, its gonna be like a Command & Conquer game with a much longer duration, where you can play all the units yourself and not in a battle with 2 players controlling 1 fraction each, but hundreds of players each controlling a single unit themselves in a giant world with towns, cities, NPC and stuff.

And I wonder how the other Indie MMORPG coming up right now, trying to give the genre new inspiration and showing new ways or forgotten ways of progress and evolution will do in this particular aspect. When their massive open PvP battlegrounds know no begin and end, like ACE showed on the example of an endless played game of risk in the kickstartercampaign video. The only other solution i can see at this point would be a variety of layers of battlegrounds. Where like there are 2-8 capitol cities each, and in the middle between these there is the mainbattleground, if you like to say so, where there is no bonus or malus for anyone. And if one fraction now progresses more and more in one side to the capitol, first the ground loosing fraction could get a bonus at some point, and if they even progress further, the ground winning fraction could get a malus. And so there are different layers on the battleground to keep one fraction away from complety dominating another fraction, so that its still fun for a weaker fraction to participate and encouraging to not give up. This way you would have a pretty solid system to handle unequal player-fractions. It would also make sense if you think about it, like the inhabitans/NPC of the borderlands dont have any preference for one fraction or the other, but as you further and further progress into one direction to a capitol, the loyality of the inhabitans/NPC rises, and so they arent supporting you on free kind will, but try to sabotage you at some point maybe, which makes it more difficult for you of course. That variety of different layers of battlegrounds does pretty much resemble the different rulesets per campaign at Crowfall, while still being something else in some way. I even wrote once a concept about that in a draft for a MMORPG in the Attack on Titan universe.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Keep buying yer large keeps, the upkeep expected for those should be enough to push ya into the real CWs. Make sure to show up at the export site with a group of yer carebear friends for a resource party. I'll make it rain.

 

I'll be there anyway, but, I have 3 words for ya ;) tax-free parcels.  See ya in the dregs.


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í blóði er hefnd kvöl er ótta dýrð sorg ríkir

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Keep buying yer large keeps, the upkeep expected for those should be enough to push ya into the real CWs. Make sure to show up at the export site with a group of yer carebear friends for a resource party. I'll make it rain.

 

I'll be there anyway, but, I have 3 words for ya ;) tax-free parcels.  See ya in the dregs.

 

Thats actually the biggest, if not the only concern I got with the game design till now at all.

 

What are tax-free parcels?

What do they do?

 

How do you get them?

Only through Cash-Shop or through Ingame playing too?

Or were they exclusive for only kickstarter backers?

 

I heard that they decrease the maintenance costs of your EK somehow, so they make basically everything in your kingdom gets cheaper and in this way makes your EK economic more efficient/competetive or easier to handle?

 

I can understand for reason there to exist in parcels you can get through ingame or buy in the Cash shop.

But is there really a gameplay reason for tax-free parcels to exist, and not only just parcels?

At this point it seems to me like there is almost only monetizing reason for tax-free parcels to exist.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Tax-free = Upkeep-free. I mention this just to keep things clear in the discussion.

 

From the FAQ:

 

IS THERE AN UPKEEP COST ON THE LAND OR BUILDINGS?

 

Buildings have a recurring maintenance cost. (We use the word “tax” because it’s easier to say than “recurring maintenance cost”.) The base cost is different for each type of building.

 

Stronghold parcels do not have a direct tax. Instead, they apply a multiplier to the building(s) placed on that land. Resource parcels that are adjacent to the stronghold have two effects. First, they increase the occupancy rate of the stronghold parcel: How many buildings can I place there? Second, they adjust the tax rate of the buildings placed in the stronghold parcel.

 

If your taxes fall into arrears, the buildings on the land will begin to degrade (but the parcel itself does not; for example, a Medium Keep parcel isn’t directly taxed, so it never downgrades.)

 

If a building fully degrades, it won’t disappear but instead goes to rank 0, the “Ruined” state. At that point, the building becomes unusable (and stops incurring additional taxes).  

 

You only can repair and upgrade your buildings using in-game resources (i.e. the resources that come primarily from campaigns).

 

So, placing these bought parcels will cost nothing, but repairing and/or upgrading these will cost in-game resources. Unless you trade-in your existing stronghold/building and replace it with a larger version. 

Edited by Canth

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