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Tyrant

New Rules of Conduct (General Rules)

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There you have it. Take his account first. Margeritas on Courant. I don't care if they take all your money. I just think they should have to tell you why. If I go borrow $1,000 from the bank, I'm going to have way more pages of legal than that. If I decide not to pay back the bank, then I'm going to arbitration, court, etc. ACE gets $1,000 from me and then don't even have to PM me a middle finger.

 

You should seriously read more terms of service agreements. This is standard language that you will find in just about any such document, and I'm not even just referring to games or software in general, but real world things. Like your gym membership, your cell phone service, your tv service, your internet service, any website you register an account with (paid or otherwise), hell even your employment contract in some states.

Edited by syiss

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It's a better comparison than saying the money is used for a service considering there is no game right now. And when there is a game, you're essentially denying someone virtual assets (like VIP tickets) that have real life value. I don't see them refunding you $900 because you have 5 years of VIP tickets that you paid $250 for.

 

And I should take issue with legal speak in general? So, instead of discussing a change at the local level where I have a forum, I need to get a team of lawyers and attack the industry as a whole. Got it.

 

 

Well should at least be consistent. Did you have the same issue the last MMO you played? Did you voice your concerns there as well. If this is your first MMO then ok but just curious as to why now its an issue.

Edited by pang

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You should seriously read more terms of service agreements. This is standard language that you will find in just about any such document, and I'm not even just referring to games or software in general, but real world things. Like your gym membership, your cell phone service, your tv service, your internet service, any website you register an account with (paid or otherwise), hell even your employment contract in some states.

 

AT&T didn't open their terms for discussion, ACE did. If you don't want to discuss them either, bye.

 

@headlight

 

Well should at least be consistent. Did you have the same issue the last MMO you played? Did you voice your concerns there as well. If this is your first MMO then ok but just curious as to why now its an issue.

 

Is this your first forums? Because I've had forum suspensions and bans before that didn't effect my in-game status. I couldn't post, but I could still play. When I went to sign escrow documents for my house, it said that I wasn't allowed to have chickens and that colored people aren't allowed to own this property. True story. I like how "that's the way it's always been" is a real justification.

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Like which one? I'm not seeing any situation, including protecting themselves in the event of a lawsuit, that would warrant the without notice clause.

 

I do not have any concrete situation that come to my mind.

 

I assume that if MMO companies use this termination term it's because there's a good reason to use it.

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The human readable version:

 

 

RULES

  • No porn.
  • No hate speech, stalking, or creeping.
  • No irl threats.
  • Don't discuss politics or religion.
  • No hacking.
  • Don't steal intellectual property.
  • Don't spam or troll in chat.
  • The support system is not a tactical asset for removing competitors.
  • Don't pretend you're someone important.
  • Don't advertise or try to make money.
  • Don't bot.
  • Don't exploit.
  • Don't doxx.
  • Don't use Crowfall to make money. Seriously, don't.
  • If you're gonna be a jerk, do it within game mechanics and don't make Artcraft lose money. Try not to be too much of a jerk.
  • Legal stuff? Talk to support@artcraftent.com.
  • Don't do illegal things.
  • Artcraft has control over your account, and can delete your crap. Weigh decisions accordingly.

 

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If I see TaylorSwift in game, I'm just going to assume it's Hamopeche and go on about my life

 

Absolutely brilliant. :lol:


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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Is this your first forums? Because I've had forum suspensions and bans before that didn't effect my in-game status. I couldn't post, but I could still play. When I went to sign escrow documents for my house, it said that I wasn't allowed to have chickens and that colored people aren't allowed to own this property. True story. I like how "that's the way it's always been" is a real justification.

Nope, didn't say or imply any such thing. Saying this is how it is now and this is standard for this type of game/product/service is not the same as what you implied.

 

Frankly I have no idea why ACE would open ALL the CoC posts for discussion. I can see the forum CoC sure but IMO the game and general rules should be set in stone and that's it.  

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Nope, didn't say or imply any such thing. Saying this is how it is now and this is standard for this type of game/product/service is not the same as what you implied.

 

Frankly I have no idea why ACE would open ALL the CoC posts for discussion. I can see the forum CoC sure but IMO the game and general rules should be set in stone and that's it.  

 

yeah, it's exactly what I implied. That was standard documentation for how my deed read. Obviously, something like that wouldn't fly today. Things change. There may be a reason for that, and I'm sure it'll be answered by someone with the ability.

Edited by headlight

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I think this might make this more clear:

 

"Art+Craft may also terminate or suspend your access to any Communication Channels at any time, without prior notice, for any reason. The account will be notified of any action related to terminating or suspending access via the email associated with the account."

 

That's what was going to happen in any case.  Nobody I know blocks access without communicating with the involved account, though as we note in the forum rules of conduct, sometime the suspension will happen during an investigation, before an email is sent.


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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AT&T didn't open their terms for discussion, ACE did. If you don't want to discuss them either, bye.

 

Don't straw man me. My point wasn't about whether AT&T, Microsoft, Costco, ArtCraft or any other business opened their terms of service up for discussion. My point is that this is standard legal language you'll find in just about any contract for any service, online or otherwise.

 

This isn't a case of "this is how it's always been done", and your analogy about ridiculous, unlawful, and clearly out of date language found in your house deed is an absurd and poorly framed attempt to paint it as such.

 

It's not there so ArtCraft can play God and hand down the ban hammer whenever someone's in a bad mood. It's a CYA (cover your bottom) clause that's put in there to catch any destructive or otherwise unwanted action that isn't explicitly spelled out. I've seen Terms of Service Agreements 50 pages long that STILL include that clause, because it is literally impossible to explicitly spell out every single type of infraction in exacting detail, and completely unreasonable to expect anyone to write all of it out or for every user to read it all. Exhibit A gentlemen:

 

1) impersonate another person (including celebrities). Seriously? If I see TaylorSwift in game, I'm just going to assume it's Hamopeche and go on about my life. So if I see someone with celebrity names in game, it's my duty to report Eminem SlaysBodies?

 

2) libel? Really? If I post in off-topic that I think Lastgirl is pregnant when I know she's not, you're going to cancel my subscription? lol. This isn't the 1800s. Libel is 90% of the internet. I'm not sure how this one is even enforceable. I don't think Britney Spears is going to sue you guys because I said she slept with Snoop Dogg.

 

3) Art+Craft may also terminate or suspend your access to any Communication Channels at any time, without notice, for any reason

Nice catch-all. Why is the "without notice" part even necessary? Bad enough you can do it because your elbow itches. Even worse that you can do it without notice. Is this something that's going to be in the ToS for the game? So just by logging in, I agree that you can snatch everything I own with no reasoning? It's like a license to unprofessional.

 

Your hypocrisy is so blatant I don't know how you can even take yourself seriously, let alone expect the rest of us to. In the span of a single post you bash on the fact that it's unclear if you are obligated to report a player with the username of a real person, then defend your right to deliberately spread lies about other users (because this is the internet and that's just how it is right - oh wait, you're also the guy who takes issue with using the 'status quo' as a justification), then finish up by complaining about the fact that ArtCraft has included a clause that allows them to ban players for committing violations not explicitly spelled out in their rules of conduct. You are literally the exact type of person that creates the necessity for this type of clause. And it's painfully obvious.

Edited by syiss

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Frankly I have no idea why ACE would open ALL the CoC posts for discussion. I can see the forum CoC sure but IMO the game and general rules should be set in stone and that's it.  

 

We have this weird idea that dialoging with our customers, even about the less than fun stuff, might lead to a better outcome and relationship in the long term.  Time will tell.  In the meantime, if we can add any clarifications or change our stance on certain parts of this document before slapping it up, I see that as a good thing for everyone involved.

 

There is a belief (sometimes justified) that dev actions can be arbitrary and high-handed.  I think they more we show our process and thoughts the better.


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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Yea I wasn't questioning ACE, it was more like a curiosity of mine.. why bother making rules if "we can ban you for whatever we want, custard you!".

Guess I am not used to legal stuff, I am more into sciences and REASON. :D

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

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We have this weird idea that dialoging with our customers, even about the less than fun stuff, might lead to a better outcome and relationship in the long term.  Time will tell.  In the meantime, if we can add any clarifications or change our stance on certain parts of this document before slapping it up, I see that as a good thing for everyone involved.

 

There is a belief (sometimes justified) that dev actions can be arbitrary and high-handed.  I think they more we show our process and thoughts the better.

and I agree 100% and why I've backed this game and upgraded (layaway) to Amber is that you guys are so open. Just saying though that some things sure take feedback but other things should be set in stone pretty much. Besides I'm sure there are some things you couldn't change even if you wanted to due to lawyer and legal stuff.

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Yea I wasn't questioning ACE, it was more like a curiosity of mine.. why bother making rules if "we can ban you for whatever we want, custard you!".

Guess I am not used to legal stuff, I am more into sciences and REASON. :D

 

Even if the most important rule is "we'll ban you if we we want", it's still important for ACE to communicate what kinds of common or easily-foreseeable behaviors are predictably going to lead to enforcement actions. The TOS is useful as a checklist of "things I definitely should not do" even if it's not a limitation on ACE's ability to maintain their game as they think best.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I ran a nonprofit art site that leveraged fair use copyright law. We were sued by a huge unnamed company, and thanks to a volunteer EFF lawyer and some personal balls we fended them off. We were also threatened by many small timers that frankly we couldn't care less about and wouldn't have minded removing their work. But the way the law works is that if you make an exception, you could be considered waving your rights.

 

 

The point is that there is no point in arguing the insensitivity of legal speak. It sucks for everyone including the ones saying it.

Edited by Tahru

                                                     SR8DSigTemp_Tahru.png

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Because I can't bring myself to read through some of these ridiculous posts, can someone just answer me this question in the simplest manner possible?

 

If I get suspended/banned on the forums, is it 100% certain that I will also be banned in game?

 

Please and thanks.


protosig_zps963957f1.png

RIP Hili

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Only ACE can answer that of course. But sometimes not knowing gives people more flexibility on the individual cases. I am reasonably sure that the right to ban from everything is reserved.


                                                     SR8DSigTemp_Tahru.png

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Because I can't bring myself to read through some of these ridiculous posts, can someone just answer me this question in the simplest manner possible?

 

If I get suspended/banned on the forums, is it 100% certain that I will also be banned in game?

 

Please and thanks.

 

The answer to the question is "no".  And I hope you aren't planning to get yourself in a position where this is a possibility.


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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