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Tyrant

New Rules of Conduct (Forums)

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Civility - polite, reasonable and respectful behavior is what the dictionary says.

 

"Brigading" sounds like politics to me, but since we don't have any voting/rating systems yet, I'm not sure it applies. 

 

Can someone offer a workable definition for "reddit-style abuse"?

Hi Tyrant,

 

Again, thanks for your speedy reply. 

 

I know you and I can agree on the denotation of civility, but the connotations of "polite, reasonable, and respectful" are left open to individual interpretation. I point this out because if you leave the words undefined, people WILL define them for you in their own special ways. 

 

Earlier I mentioned adding brigading and other reddit-style abuse to the CoC for the forums. Dogpiling threads, manipulating up/down votes/stars (here), etc.; those are the reddit-style abusive behaviors I'm talking about. The most people can do as of now is manipulate the star ratings on profiles and threads, so brigading is limited greatly, and I hope it stays that way. Dogpiling is the worst of the issue here so far; it's usually a coordinated effort among a small group to shut down posts by people they don't like or with whom they disagree. The intention of dogpiling is to silence and shame the speaker and discredit his or her reputation among the larger community. 

 

Thanks again,

 

Iri~


Click your profile name>Click Manage Ignore Prefs>Find "Add a new user to my list" at the bottom of the page>Type in a username>Check options>Save Changes>Silence is bliss.

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Well that was a nice read. Anyway, I'd like to support civil and respectful conversation, but as Iridian says we all have our own definition of civil. In the middle east, it's civil to cut off a thiefs hand, extreme, but you can leave your purse on a park bench and come back for it tomorrow. In many states it's civil to execute heinous criminals, it eliminates and detours criminals. People's opinion of what is right and wrong is often just a matter of philosophy and consensus.

 

I, personally, hold a very unique and literal definition of the word respect. Courtesy however, is a much harder term to debate.

 

How does this system address willful ignorance?, selfish obstinance?, bigotry and chauvinism?, misrepresentation and slander? Are these not uncivilized? Is it not civil to challenge them, and what is the solution to irrationality and foolishness?, will ArtCraft busy themselves policing their communities maturity? Or will it breed uncivilized behavior as it censors sharp criticism and chastisement while allowing "innocuous" ignorance to run amok?

 

That's a lot of labor for your staff to address everything wrong in your forum, but it's worse to have immaturity and incivility run rampant.

 

How little or much you decide to police your community is your responsibility, I just hope your willing to take full responsibility instead of just suppressing arguments and allowing blatant misrepresentation and indirect disrespect to slide.

 

But that's the community. What I openly disagree with is the idea that ACE demands the freedom to do whatever it wants with hundreds of thousands of consumer dollars for a product that they convinced us they'd deliver and than tell its consumers, and all your forum participants are consumers, that they not only cannot express anger if there's something wrong or a mistake is made, and that cursing, contending with moderation and fighting for a return on investment can be censored and your purchase of the games access can be revoked if you misbehave on the forum.

 

Anger, dissatisfaction and disapproval are not naturally civilized, and if something bad is done by ACE itself, are we to remain civilized? Is our passion for a quality and successful product to be expressed in the civil and courteous manner defined solely by ACE, for ACE, with no protection for the consumers interest if ACE fails? Or is ACE above failure and mistake, and shall we assume that we will be treated fairly in any and all circumstances, from here until whenever, no matter what?

 

We can all assume that ACE will behave themselves and act fairly, most of us put a great deal of trust in you already in spending impractical amounts of money on a product beginning production, but that doesn't mean we should comfortably agree that we will all behave "civilized", and courteous no matter what ACE does after turning over, individually hundreds of dollars, collectively hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

Have no games failed their way out of development?, have kickstarters and visionaries never been corrupted or made mistakes?, or is it that your only open to courteous, civilized criticism, positive criticism, if we find some company behavior at fault.

 

I've only ever had minor qualms and dissapoontments with ACE thus far, so I'm not trying to suggest your at great fault thus far, I'm just saying, claiming all rights and freedom for yourself and denying your consumers right to be utterly (curse word referring to urination) is not an appropriate system of consumer accountability.

 

And that's the big word, accountable. We are here, accountable to you, after having paid you and supported you, and I wanna know, are you strong enough to hold yourself accountable to your consumer, in greater measure than... Civilized and courteous, positive criticism.

 

A developer at Riot once said that they accept the aggravation and criticism of their consumers because it was an indication of their investment and value for the subject and product.

 

Jim Sterling did an episode on how asinine complaints and ridicule have better working impact on injustice than civil communication and courtesy.

 

As well meaning and honest as your guidelines might be, they jeopardize a players ability to riot when something goes severely wrong, and for that reason, I fully disapprove of the policy of removing a player from the game based on their behavior on forum. It is a form of hostile control which can be abused.

 

Most of these policies are common place anywhere on the Internet because it's tough to control the behavior of anonymous participants. Censoring and silencing people in cases appropriate is expected. But much of it isn't practically enforceable for resource and concious reasons. I point all this out because you've made it a subject to host a discussion on it, so I'd like to advocate for better consumer protection and accountability...

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I can see cases where we might permanently suspend a person from the forums while letting you keep your game account.  I see these as mostly the slow learners and Tourette 's Syndrome sufferers.  But there are people who will get a permanent suspension on the forums that we simply don't want as customers anymore because they have either done something bad enough to get an instant permanent suspension or their pattern of behavior is such that we want them to be someone else's customer.  In any case they can appeal the suspension after 90 days.  Traditionally (in our other games) we've let a good percentage of those folks have a second chance even though the recidivism rate tends to be high.  I guess I'm just an optimist about people!

 

I musta been in part of that bad %%%

 

But I agree generally...not that it matters.

Edited by Nakawe

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The most people can do as of now is manipulate the star ratings on profiles and threads,

Thanks again,

 

Iri~

 

I could not agree more......  This is preposterous.  The manipulation of star rating is out of control.  I know I had to buy 10 account, log them all in individually just to take 1 negative ranking from myself.  This has cost me a lot of $$$.  Thank goodness I can have several forum accounts logged in at the same time.  If they reduce this to 1 forum account per computer, it will take me forever to fix these ratings!!!

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I'm just going on a whim here, but I think they have a calmer view because they aren't "attacked" on off-site 'activity'. 

 

Actually, I've had death threats and other hurtful/silly/mean things happen, so when I say I understand how it feels, I truly do understand. Over the years, I had to get thick-skinned about it. It's my life in the fishbowl.  ^_^


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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Actually, I've had death threats and other hurtful/silly/mean things happen, so when I say I understand how it feels, I truly do understand. Over the years, I had to get thick-skinned about it. It's my life in the fishbowl.  ^_^

Try being a cop, there was not a day that went by, when I was doing it full-time, when someone didn't threaten me or my family when I was making an arrest.  Most people live in their own little bubble and cannot handle confrontation.

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Earlier I mentioned adding brigading and other reddit-style abuse to the CoC for the forums. Dogpiling threads, manipulating up/down votes/stars (here), etc.; those are the reddit-style abusive behaviors I'm talking about. The most people can do as of now is manipulate the star ratings on profiles and threads, so brigading is limited greatly, and I hope it stays that way. Dogpiling is the worst of the issue here so far; it's usually a coordinated effort among a small group to shut down posts by people they don't like or with whom they disagree. The intention of dogpiling is to silence and shame the speaker and discredit his or her reputation among the larger community. 

 

 

Dogpiling is already a preventable action, as it would imply that people are not contributing to the discussion.  As such it could/should be reported, and would probably be enforced.

 

However, I see a lot of people confuse dogpiling with disagreement.  If your view differs from others, no matter how vocal/plentiful the other group is, people should be well within their rights to disagree as long as it's done constructively.  If a small group of the same people over and over happen to chime in then that's not really a problem.  It is simply the status quo of the current vocal crowd, or an indication of how well received the content contributed might or might not have been.

 

With that said, why trouble yourself with being concerned with your reputation and the tarnish a large vocal group of disagreement could bring upon it?  I think you are valuing the opinion of those whom you probably could not care for a bit too serious.


[@--(o.O)@]

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Dogpiling is already a preventable action, as it would imply that people are not contributing to the discussion.  As such it could/should be reported, and would probably be enforced.

 

However, I see a lot of people confuse dogpiling with disagreement.  If your view differs from others, no matter how vocal/plentiful the other group is, people should be well within their rights to disagree as long as it's done constructively.  If a small group of the same people over and over happen to chime in then that's not really a problem.  It is simply the status quo of the current vocal crowd, or an indication of how well received the content contributed might or might not have been.

 

With that said, why trouble yourself with being concerned with your reputation and the tarnish a large vocal group of disagreement could bring upon it?  I think you are valuing the opinion of those whom you probably could not care for a bit too serious.

I don't like for people to be silenced and shamed. It's not cool. 

 

No need to extend to personal "you" commentary :)


Click your profile name>Click Manage Ignore Prefs>Find "Add a new user to my list" at the bottom of the page>Type in a username>Check options>Save Changes>Silence is bliss.

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They should probably not be so sensitive and build some self worth. If we are to the point where one man stands against twenty on an idea, and the twenty cannot voice their opinion just because there are more of them... then society is in bad shape. If that one man truly believes his idea to be valuable, it is up to that man to defend his idea... preferably with evidence and/or reason.

 

Hey, there are still people who wish women couldn't vote in the U.S. They have every right to think and share their idea all while the vast majority of the population has every right to disagree. This is not a bad thing.

Edited by Adall

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Try being a cop, there was not a day that went by, when I was doing it full-time, when someone didn't threaten me or my family when I was making an arrest.  Most people live in their own little bubble and cannot handle confrontation.

 

My father was Houston PD for 30 years. Unfortunately, I understand exactly what you mean. 

 

 

Dogpiling is already a preventable action, as it would imply that people are not contributing to the discussion.  As such it could/should be reported, and would probably be enforced.

 

I truly appreciate when people correctly use the Report button to bring attention to things we need to investigate. It makes me a sad pannda when they abuse it or, when I start checking into the matter, I see that they started the brouhaha or escalated it when the easiest thing to do would have been to leave the thread. 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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LOL @ thinking what is being called "dogpiling"  being planned.  Not once has I ever seen a concerted effort by anyone to "plan" an attack.  People post how they feel about a b and c.  Others read the comment and agree, why should they not?   The one who disagrees feels "attacked" and threatened because of disagreement.  If you have an unpopular, ridiculous or absolutely archaic idea that belongs in KI, not CF, ppl are going to disagree and they will disagree vehemently.  That is just how life works.  The forum is no different.  


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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I myself have seen a dogpile being planned and coordinated... on another forum to take place on this forum before... it definitely happens...  It's good that ACE doesn't really value that kind of bullying. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Hi Tyrant,

 

Again, thanks for your speedy reply. 

 

I know you and I can agree on the denotation of civility, but the connotations of "polite, reasonable, and respectful" are left open to individual interpretation. I point this out because if you leave the words undefined, people WILL define them for you in their own special ways. 

 

Earlier I mentioned adding brigading and other reddit-style abuse to the CoC for the forums. Dogpiling threads, manipulating up/down votes/stars (here), etc.; those are the reddit-style abusive behaviors I'm talking about. The most people can do as of now is manipulate the star ratings on profiles and threads, so brigading is limited greatly, and I hope it stays that way. Dogpiling is the worst of the issue here so far; it's usually a coordinated effort among a small group to shut down posts by people they don't like or with whom they disagree. The intention of dogpiling is to silence and shame the speaker and discredit his or her reputation among the larger community. 

 

Thanks again,

 

Iri~

 

I think you're giving the folks of this forum way too much credit if you really believe that coordinated "dogpiling" is a thing, especially if you think it's running rampant.  Frankly it seems like BS.  Why? Because there's plenty of reasons for folks like myself, to individually dislike what others are posting.  This post for example, I don't need anyone PMing me to tell me that I should disagree with this post; I'm perfectly capable of feeling that you're full of it all on my own, thank you very much. Please stop with the conspiracy theories on bullying, because that's what this is.  There isn't a forum KKK running around behind peoples' backs, there's no forum illuminati, there's no little green plastic soldiers picking out people to target.  Dogpiling isn't the worst issue on these forums, the worst issue on these forums is people just making stuff up and passing it off as fact under the guise of "helping" the community.


protosig_zps963957f1.png

RIP Hili

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Jesus, are you kidding me? You seriously filtered the name of the secret gummy bear police? Ludicrous.

 

AND you filtered the name of the ruling party of Germany during World War II?

 

Is this real life? The ACE staff are the biggest trolls on this forum.

Edited by protonix

protosig_zps963957f1.png

RIP Hili

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Again, thanks for your speedy reply. 

 

I have contacted support a few times and I am nothing but impressed by the speedy response and very enthusiastic and eager to please attitude. My experience with ACE has been nothing but stellar.

 

As a result. I have nothing but support if ACE feels new rules are needed. I am confident the interests of ACE and most supporters are aligned and targeted at making the most of the Crowfall experience.


                                                     SR8DSigTemp_Tahru.png

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Feel like I'm in the twilight zone. The trolls agree with the new rules and the white knights are crying that they're not strict enough. Arguing about whose definition of civility applies? Uh, their definition of civility. You know, the ones who host the game and develop it? I gotta check to see what got slipped into my sweet tea, because I feel like I've been drugged having to sit here and white knight.

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Feel like I'm in the twilight zone. The trolls agree with the new rules and the white knights are crying that they're not strict enough. Arguing about whose definition of civility applies? Uh, their definition of civility. You know, the ones who host the game and develop it? I gotta check to see what got slipped into my sweet tea, because I feel like I've been drugged having to sit here and white knight.

 

What is this white knighting you speak of? I mean, I think I know from context clues, but I'd like a more concrete definition.

 

We didn't have these terms in my day.


protosig_zps963957f1.png

RIP Hili

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Feel like I'm in the twilight zone. The trolls agree with the new rules and the white knights are crying that they're not strict enough. Arguing about whose definition of civility applies? Uh, their definition of civility. You know, the ones who host the game and develop it? I gotta check to see what got slipped into my sweet tea, because I feel like I've been drugged having to sit here and white knight.

The best part about that is that the rules really haven't changed all that much... so if someone is agreeing with them now but disagreed with them before... that's peculiar to say the least...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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The best part about that is that the rules really haven't changed all that much... so if someone is agreeing with them now but disagreed with them before... that's peculiar to say the least...

 

Would love to see the part where people disagreed with the rules with the exception of the profanity filters and the catch-all/blanket statement. The enforcement was always the issue at hand.

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