Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Combat Chat 3: Powers Q&A - Official discussion thread


Pann

Recommended Posts

 Darkfall had that, if I recall correctly.

 

ya... DF had it...

 

initial problem was, that splash damage = direct impact damage...

so people splashed the spells behind the targets on the ground, to get the additional back-hit damage applied.

And because hitting the ground behind someone is easier than hitting someone directly, it made things kinda... uhm... stupid ;)

 

But implemented properly, splash damage is certainly a worthwhile consideration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hope Crowfall has a plan early for dealing with cheating and hackers.

 

I'm guessing much of the physics will be client-side, since unless you have a source license, Unity doesn't let you manually control the timestep for its built-in PhysX system. This means you can't do the rollbacks you need to do for lag compensation.

 

Would be interested in hearing more about the architecture you're using for your physics sync, since it's a very interesting software engineering problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, and they said that it was difficult to hit players with ranged attack.

It seems like other games, even action games are instant attack/miss... So when you activate a skill the game checks to see if your reticle is over the giant target box and if so youre guaranteed a hit

 

In crowfall it could be that you cast a fire ball and it actually has to intercept the target like real physics... So I'd the target moves even a slight amount you miss. In pvp where people are running around like maniacs it would be very hard especially when you add lag/latency.

 

I think this is why they talked so much about how other games use ray cast and how played move compared to enemies. They just haven't said officially what the system is doing to determine if a projectile hits a target.

MOkvLlm.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we've been told that the physics is server side, but have not been given details on the underlying tech.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have to disagree on the whole stun-lock immunity thing that was mentioned in the combat chat.

Of course I agree that its no fun being stun-locked until you are dead, but whats more annoying is when you have a big group vs group fight and you stun the tank a couple of times and then he suddenly becomes immune to all of your CC attacks and can pretty much woop your bottom.

 

Wont a stun-lock immunity system make tanks unbalanced in that they can take the damage until they are immune and then crush you?

 

Agreed. I like the idea of diminishing returns for CC, but I also HATE when my stuns or abilities don't work entirely or work as I expect.

 

While I agree that chain CC is toxic to a game, so is having an ability be completely ineffective as a result of an artificial (ie, not player induced) mechanic. I say keep diminishing returns, but instead of CC immunity, make it so the effect still applies but at increasingly shorter intervals (for example, after some noob gets hit by a 4 second stun 3 times, on the 4th time it only stuns for a half second...not enough to significantly damage gameplay, but at least applying something so that the attacking player knows that it worked.)

 

Of course cap the diminishing returns (maybe at something like 0.2 seconds) on a GCD for all CC, long enough that at least we know it did something and isn't completely obsolete, but short enough that at least chain stuns would be much harder to capitalize on, even with the more people blowing CC.

Edited by RKNM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole "it might be hard to hit people really far away" thing got me thinking. Why not have spells like fireballs explode in a small splash proximity on the ground, Quake rocket launcher style? Darkfall had that, if I recall correctly.

 

That would help a lot with hitting people that are far away since you wouldn't have to actually hit 100% on their body and it would be a neat anti-zerg mechanic at the same time if enough spells have that sort of behaviour.

 

That's actually something we're working with right now. When a fireballs expires (either hitting its lifetime or colliding with the ground / wall / player) it will explode in a radius. It ends up having a little bit of a flak cannon effect going on. 

Tully Ackland

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. 

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

[Rules of Conduct]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's actually something we're working with right now. When a fireballs expires (either hitting its lifetime or colliding with the ground / wall / player) it will explode in a radius. It ends up having a little bit of a flak cannon effect going on. 

That sounds awesome. Remember to reward people for hitting directly on target and "punish" people who use the splash technique with something like reduced damage compared to a direct hit.

 

That way it won't end up like what freeze described here:

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/7993-combat-chat-3-powers-qa-official-discussion-thread/page-3#entry210270

Edited by macavity

7ug90hM.png


 


Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the whole group vs solo, and people growing worried about the zerg mentality of MMO's today, I think that the inclusion of friendly fire already alleviates some of these issues: have a group that's too big, and suddenly, your back row casters are killing their own tanks and melee, tipping the odds in the favor of the smaller groups. Still, having more people should already tell you what your up against, its a basic principle of reality: many hands make light work, so if your 3-man is facing down a 15-man, you should not be surprised if they are able to out-DPS you...well, it'd probably end up being more of a 9-8 man after the backline kills off a couple of their own allies...

 

Anyhow, while grouping does have it's advantages (more damage, more support from comrades, more health/blocking), there are disadvantages in running with bigger groups (easier to damage, lack of subtlety, less likely to receive specific support or execute specific tactics) and advantages to running with smaller groups (ease of targeting, DPS output applying to more people, ease of teamwork and tactics)

Edited by RKNM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm glad that we'll have weapon options and they'll correspond with our damage types. However, I'm a little disappointed that they sound like little more than stat boosters as opposed to having a more meaningful impact on gameplay, I was kind of hoping that each weapon would come with it's own preassigned abilities for each archetype and matching weapons with archetypes for hotbar abilities would have been a cool and intuitive system to have, not to mention the variety. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it sounds like...

 
And I'm fine with mid-range casters, I've always imagined casters being more mid-range anyhow, high-risk=high reward and all. Plus (from a lore perspective), if you're reciting incantations and casting spells, all the steps and details involved would make it hard to target something directly as they're moving. So being at mid-range would improve aim and allow those spells to be more effective.
 
I mean, for crying out loud, even range in the Harry Potter universe was mid-range...I can think of very few to no instances where I've seen a "magician" "snipe" anybody with a spell in any media, come to think of it, cast magic was always applied at mid-to-close-range...except when changing the weather of an area far away, but this was rare and seemed overly complex (like Saruman and the Gap of Rohan...actually, Gandalf uses magic at mid to close range too...this has given me much to think about...)
 
Anyhow, with projectiles and people complaining how hard it will be to hit at range, well, know your abilities animation and collision speeds. In Super Smash Bros, I am able to hit with the ray gun at range almost every time due to it's fast speed, but hitting with Samus' energy cannon at range takes work cause it's slower...that's just part of the tactics. Play the class/archetype/character, not your expectations.
Edited by RKNM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In crowfall it could be that you cast a fire ball and it actually has to intercept the target like real physics... So I'd the target moves even a slight amount you miss. In pvp where people are running around like maniacs it would be very hard especially when you add lag/latency.

 

Players would probably miss some percentage of their attacks, and I think it's fine.

 

I don't see a problem with low hit ratio in team fights. If CF were based on 1v1 PvP then it could be an issue.

 

Example of projectiles in Darkfall : https://youtu.be/dPQwfKzV4-E?t=1m43s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll be honest, not balancing around 1v1 at the get go kind of scares me a bit...1v1 happens more often than not (in fact, it probably happens more often than anything else) and if you disregard it entirely in archetype development, I'd imagine you run the risk of a class/archetype becoming unintentionally overpowered at release, with few mechanics to stymie the effect...which is how the war of stealth mechanics in PvP first started...

 

I know it's a popular thing to cry out "THE GAME IS NOT BUILT AROUND 1V1!!!" but that's an excuse, and frankly, doesn't get much traction anywhere anymore, whether the game is MEANT to be group based or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Players would probably miss some percentage of their attacks, and I think it's fine.

 

I don't see a problem with low hit ratio in team fights. If CF were based on 1v1 PvP then it could be an issue.

 

Example of projectiles in Darkfall : https://youtu.be/dPQwfKzV4-E?t=1m43s

 

At that point, I think that elusive quality known as "skill" becomes a factor in a battle's outcome...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

to be honest, I didn't mind the splash from behind.. some players did it right on purpose, and that's also skill :P

 

@freeze @macavity

 

ya, not saying it shouldn't be possible, just that direct hits should be preferable from a player's perspective

 

 

edit:

to add to courant's vid:

https://youtu.be/oqxfc-rS-3A?t=4m

 

This vid is further along Darkfall's lifetime and you can see more different types of spells. Straight fyling, lobs, area spells, force fields, pulls, pushes and so on.

Edited by freeze
Link to comment
Share on other sites

to add to courant's vid:

https://youtu.be/oqxfc-rS-3A?t=4m

 

This vid is further along Darkfall's lifetime and you can see more different types of spells. Straight fyling, lobs, area spells, force fields, pulls, pushes and so on.

 

I really like how they've done the combat with the magic abilities.

 

The different size and speed of the projectiles in Darkfall seems to balance adequately the impact that the ranged casters have on the outcome of the battles.

Edited by courant101
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It's an excellent point.  Right now, we added rudimentary grouping because we needed a mechanism for linking players in the matchmaking system (this will make more sense, once we reveal how the tests are being structured.)

 

We haven't settled yet on exactly where we will eventually fall on the "no grouping" / "soft grouping" / "hard grouping" spectrum.  In our internal debates, Blair is more pro-group and I'm usually the one arguing that they might not be necessary.  The best arguments in favor usually centered around information display and communication.

 

If we can get away with no (or light) grouping mechanics, I'd like to try that, first.  

 

Todd

ACE

 

I agree with you Todd,  we can play this game without groups.  Essentially, guilds, alliances etc are all form of groups.  Radius of skills could be used to affect buffs etc.  Its would add more punch to being in a guild/alliance as well.  Then you can have guild buffs alliance buffs or both within same buff.  You could even do this with debuffs, a debuff would affect anyone within a certain radius that was not in your guild alliance.  This would make friendly fire even more fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I agree about direct impact damage bonus related to spell effects who award players who are skilled in aiming. And you might have other spells to do damage on city walls. Another twist effect.. ..perhaps fireballs create some damage on the ground and trees/grass might catch fire burning in the surrounding landscape - and if you're too close you might start to burn unless you're careful with your positioning related to voxel tech. 

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...