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hamopeche

Not enthusiastic about the pistol

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I get that the Guineceans are intended to add a light-hearted, whimsical, even absurd element to the archetype lineup. This is increasingly common among MMOs, as a comedic foil to an otherwise-serious game, and I'm on board with it. No problems.

 

What I'm not crazy about is the anachronistic firearm technology. Especially with the Swashbuckling Anthropomorphic Animal trope thrown in, it strikes me as aping a tired cliche, and I fear that ongoing development of the archetype will decay into rehashing of the sundry, zany hahas of the games we're hoping Crowfall will obsolete. How long before we have blunderbusses and hand-held cannons and magnifying goggles and quirky, bouncing, exploding internal combustion engines, and astonished tinkerers with soot-covered faces who were just sure it would work this time?

 

No thanks.

 

Look, I know, the pistol is in. I don't expect that to change. I hope, however, that it will remain an isolated feature of the archetype, and that it is not a focus of evolution into more archetype features like it. Duelists have a pistol? Fine. Leave it at that, please.

Edited by hamopeche

I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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I get that the Guineceans are intended to add a light-hearted, whimsical, even absurd element to the archetype lineup.

 

I think your initial assumption is faulty. Nothing about the class suggests comedic relief except, possibly it's size and fur. But that assumption would be based on what you brought with you, not what ACE has provided for us.

 

What we have seen from ACE is the exact opposite. Guineceans appear to take themselves very seriously. The Archetype's descripton is "Courage and Sacrifice" while the sample backstory is that of a Guinecean explaining why they are NOT to be taken lightly.

 

I would suggest not letting your preconceptions paint your perception of the race before you've actually had a chance to interact with them.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I think your initial assumption is faulty.

 

You are quibbling with the most inconsequential aspect of my post, while ignoring the entirety of the point.

 

If you don't have anything to add to the thread, don't post in it.


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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You are quibbling with the most inconsequential aspect of my post, while ignoring the entirety of the point.

 

If you don't have anything to add to the thread, don't post in it.

Then you need to learn how to write.  Your first paragraph is supposed to set the theme/main points of what you are writing about.

 

Also, the part where you wrote: "and I fear that ongoing development of the archetype will decay into rehashing of the sundry, zany hahas of the games we're hoping Crowfall will obsolete." in your second paragraph shows that he didn't miss the point.

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Then you need to learn how to write.  Your first paragraph is supposed to set the theme/main points of what you are writing about.

 

Your high school English class perspective is inadequate. I'm not writing an essay on Catcher in the Rye. Your intro, three paragraphs, and a conclusion formula doesn't cut it in the adult world.

 

What my first paragraph did was establish a common understanding, a common ground with my audience: that the discussion to follow accepts the presence of the Guinecean archetype as given and reasonable to its purpose. This focuses those with discernment and a willingness to listen on the actual subject, not some presumed conflict of understanding. Unfortunately, that's where bairloch got tripped up, and demonstrated that he wasn't suited to the discussion.

 

Also, the part where you wrote: "and I fear that ongoing development of the archetype will decay into rehashing of the sundry, zany hahas of the games we're hoping Crowfall will obsolete." in your second paragraph shows that he didn't miss the point.

 

If he hadn't missed the point, he would have addressed the point, and responded with something to the effect of, "I don't think the Guineceans are intended to be whimsical at all, so I don't think you need to worry about them developing goofy, childish characteristics." Even had he addressed the point, however, he would be wrong to dismiss my concern. Much of what we've seen of the Guineceans, including† their flavor text, has been whimsy and flight of fancy. And, as I established with the preface‡ to my post, I'm okay with that, so long as we don't end up with an archetype tantamount to a gnome artificer.

 

 

† Part of the cliche of the diminutive anthropomorph is insisting upon and demanding recognition of its own seriousness.

 

‡ Ah so! There's a whole world beyond the puerile 1-3-1!


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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Since your kind and friendly request for more detail, I will spell out my argument for you.

 

I get that the Guineceans are intended to add a light-hearted, whimsical, even absurd element to the archetype lineup. This is increasingly common among MMOs, as a comedic foil to an otherwise-serious game, and I'm on board with it. No problems.

 

 

Already addressed.

 

What I'm not crazy about is the anachronistic firearm technology. Especially with the Swashbuckling Anthropomorphic Animal trope thrown in, it strikes me as aping a tired cliche, and I fear that ongoing development of the archetype will decay into rehashing of the sundry, zany hahas of the games we're hoping Crowfall will obsolete. How long before we have blunderbusses and hand-held cannons and magnifying goggles and quirky, bouncing, exploding internal combustion engines, and astonished tinkerers with soot-covered faces who were just sure it would work this time?

 

No thanks.

 

Again, you appear to be bringing too much in with you. You appear to assume because other games you've played handled it this way that Crowfall will as well. While at the same time acknowledging that ACE wants to do something different.

 

 

Look, I know, the pistol is in. I don't expect that to change. I hope, however, that it will remain an isolated feature of the archetype, and that it is not a focus of evolution into more archetype features like it. Duelists have a pistol? Fine. Leave it at that, please.

There is every possibility that this can be handled maturely and appropriately for the tone that ACE is claiming Crowfall will have.

 

I hope I have lived up to your demanding standards and am, once again, allowed to post in this forum.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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bairloch, your point seems to be that what I am concerned might occur doesn't have to occur. Excellent! I agree, and the purpose of this thread is to encourage ACE not to let it happen.

 

Sounds like you're endorsing the original post. Thrilled to hear it!


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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We should not forget that he guinecean archtype specialisation is not firearms but burrowing. They will take a big role in sieges. That they carry pistols on some pictures doesn't mean that the whole game will change into a shooting arena. As shown in the campaign FAQ #20 the existence of gun power might be an option for some worlds (just like worlds without magic) to look what players like and what they don't like.

 

If someone doen't like the ruleset of a specific campaign, then s/he just don't need to participate in this campaign. That's one of the very interesting part of this game: it gives possibilities and let the players choose. I see no problem with that.

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Your high school English class perspective is inadequate. I'm not writing an essay on Catcher in the Rye. Your intro, three paragraphs, and a conclusion formula doesn't cut it in the adult world.

 

What my first paragraph did was establish a common understanding, a common ground with my audience: that the discussion to follow accepts the presence of the Guinecean archetype as given and reasonable to its purpose. This focuses those with discernment and a willingness to listen on the actual subject, not some presumed conflict of understanding. Unfortunately, that's where bairloch got tripped up, and demonstrated that he wasn't suited to the discussion.

 

 

If he hadn't missed the point, he would have addressed the point, and responded with something to the effect of, "I don't think the Guineceans are intended to be whimsical at all, so I don't think you need to worry about them developing goofy, childish characteristics." Even had he addressed the point, however, he would be wrong to dismiss my concern. Much of what we've seen of the Guineceans, including† their flavor text, has been whimsy and flight of fancy. And, as I established with the preface‡ to my post, I'm okay with that, so long as we don't end up with an archetype tantamount to a gnome artificer.

 

 

† Part of the cliche of the diminutive anthropomorph is insisting upon and demanding recognition of its own seriousness.

 

‡ Ah so! There's a whole world beyond the puerile 1-3-1!

Logical fallacy.  Nowhere did I say anything about 1-3-1 and then you go to condemn it when I haven't even said to use it.  I said to write your theme/main point in the first paragraph.  It is obvious to the vast majority of the people to do so and you even saw the result of what happens when you put it in the middle with this very thread.  And yes, people in the adult world use 1-3-1, at least those of us in the professional adult world, not sure about the so-called adult world you live in.  It is puerile for you to call it puerile.

 

If you're going to attempt condescension and sounding intelligent when you really aren't, at least try and use proper logic.

Edited by Ducem

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I would also like to see black powder kept to a minimum and a total avoidance of steampunk. 

Steampunk avoidance yes. This is a fantasy game after all and not a Shadowrun. Replaces every gun aspect with magic on the other hand is very distastful. From what ive played it takes the wonder and "magic" out of magic. It becomes something trival when you shapeshift just to get to the vendor faster, when you create a portel rather them walk. For me that is the other spectrum. Of course Crowfall is a fantasy game but I hope a low to mid fantasy game where we dont drink out of holy grails and dont need a spell to tie or shoes. Black powder on the should be used in a meaningful way. Not to say that everyone sees it every 5 minutes or it turns the tide of battle (although a well placed underground explosion trap would be awesome ^^) it shouldnt deteriorate as a gimmick though. On my end; I would be absolutly fine that some rare players never see gun powder at all because they dont play black powder campiangs (that transition though!).

 

We should not forget that he guinecean archtype specialisation is not firearms but burrowing. They will take a big role in sieges. That they carry pistols on some pictures doesn't mean that the whole game will change into a shooting arena. As shown in the campaign FAQ #20 the existence of gun power might be an option for some worlds (just like worlds without magic) to look what players like and what they don't like.

 

If someone doen't like the ruleset of a specific campaign, then s/he just don't need to participate in this campaign. That's one of the very interesting part of this game: it gives possibilities and let the players choose. I see no problem with that.

I am guilty too for overseeing the real idea and purpose behind game feature just for more stuff to talk about. OP seems to be somewhat informed about the game and his points are valid. Still most people dont keep in mind that ACE is building a modulare game where we can reuse, test and change as we like. Champaigns, the powers, Eternal kindoms are not more then just repurposed Champaign Worlds (as stated by ACE in various Q&A's). Power originated from the same blank sheet, where many powers are build from, only customized to fit the character. This is the greatness behind this game; when it doesnt work we just rebuild it. CW sucks? We will not see that format again! While play testing, people dislike that we need to reload the pistol? Next testing phase we will play another iteration. If you really dislike the pistol you can just build a character without it.


 

I AM ME!
I love you all.

 

 

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How long before we have blunderbusses and hand-held cannons and magnifying goggles and quirky, bouncing, exploding internal combustion engines, and astonished tinkerers with soot-covered faces who were just sure it would work this time?

I honestly think you're reading too much into this. A pistol is hardly indicative of cartoon engineering.

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Bring on the steampunk. The more the merrier. If possible for me to use nothing but guns/explosives/shovels I will be more than happy to do so. 

 

The problem with this is that it is so incredibly overdone in MMOs.  It would be nice to see a subtler approach.  


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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The reason it's so common, is that it is the easiest way to incorporate higher technology without completely shattering the believability of the fantasy elements. There are few other ways I can think of to do this, although the Final Fantasy series has usually managed to do it pretty well. 

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The reason it's so common, is that it is the easiest way to incorporate higher technology without completely shattering the believability of the fantasy elements. There are few other ways I can think of to do this, although the Final Fantasy series has usually managed to do it pretty well. 

 

The overdone part is the incorporation of higher technology itself. There's no reason to add steam tractors and blunder buses to a fantasy setting. Tech tends to detract from the believability and immersion you would otherwise have in a game. It's okay in a game like Tera or WoW, but Crowfall seems to be going for a more hardcore, serious feel, and anything more than the Guinecean pistol could be a problem. The OP's concern is perfectly warranted.


SR8DSig_Infynis.png

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While I think rudimentary pistols could fit into the setting, depending on how late of a Western European style they're basing their world on, I agree that Steampunk-esque elements would not be welcome in this setting.


I will be the best Forgemaster

I will make battle spades

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I like steampunk genre

 

And many people like Mecha (Manziger Z, Macross, Gundam, etc). Should we have Mecha in Crowfall simply because some backers like it?

 

Because that's exactly the argument you just made.


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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