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omega59er

Okay, It's An MMO, But What Sub-Genre?

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I have done some research on this subject Shadowbane debuted in March of 2003 by independent studio Wolfpack and was sold to UBIsoft a mere 1 year later March of 2004.  Until closing July of 2008 the dev team for UBI split also and it was then the property of Straybullet.  The EMU's are private servers not company owned.  Private servers are run by individuals for many defunct games.  They can not charge to play or make profit from it in any way  shape or form as someone owns the rights and the copy rights to the original code, the name , etc.  To say it has been around for years is a correct statement but it has not been making money for years.  Major Corps are all about making money.  They will not invest capital into something that they project has no growth potential.  As you lose players you must gain players and in an amount that exceeds the amount you lose due to increase in costs ( inflation of basic sustainability function costs).  I absolutely agree that there is a player base that seems enthralled w/ SB.  Whether there is enough of those niche players to actually sustain a game geared solely towards them remains to be seem.  Whether it (SB)failed or succeeded is subjective based on whose eyes you are looking through.  

 

Better said than I ever could have.


Not quite carebear, but sort of cousin to,


meh, grumpy old lady...


Never underestimate grumpy old ladies.

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I have done some research on this subject Shadowbane debuted in March of 2003 by independent studio Wolfpack and was sold to UBIsoft a mere 1 year later March of 2004.  Until closing July of 2008 the dev team for UBI split also and it was then the property of Straybullet.  The EMU's are private servers not company owned.  Private servers are run by individuals for many defunct games.  They can not charge to play or make profit from it in any way  shape or form as someone owns the rights and the copy rights to the original code, the name , etc.  To say it has been around for years is a correct statement but it has not been making money for years.  Major Corps are all about making money.  They will not invest capital into something that they project has no growth potential.  As you lose players you must gain players and in an amount that exceeds the amount you lose due to increase in costs ( inflation of basic sustainability function costs).  I absolutely agree that there is a player base that seems enthralled w/ SB.  Whether there is enough of those niche players to actually sustain a game geared solely towards them remains to be seem.  Whether it (SB)failed or succeeded is subjective based on whose eyes you are looking through.  

 

There is enough of a niche to give CSE over $3 million dollars for a game with virtually ZERO pve and based totally on pvp. I'm betting the same players that supported Camelot, would support Crowfall since the majority of the player base shared a common interest (and most likely played both at some point).

 

No one in their right mind played DAoC for the pve.

 

Unfortunately the latest generation of games and MMOs specifically have turned gamers in to blathering idiots and sissies, so I guess we'll have to see.

Edited by helix

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There is enough of a niche to give CSE over $3 million dollars for a game with virtually ZERO pve, and based totally on pvp. I'm betting the same players that supported Camelot, would support Crowfall since the majority of the player base shared a common interest (and most likely played both at some point).

 

No one in their right mind played DAoC for the pve.

 

Unfortunately the latest generation of games and MMOs specifically have turned gamers in to blathering idiots and sissies, so I guess we'll have to see.

The game you cite is not scheduled for release until summer 2016.   And I must admit it sounds good :  

A Tri-Realm™ MMORPG where you can become a legendary warrior, crafter, or a leader of your Realm.

And similar although not exact.

 

It will be interesting to watch from a business stand point what happens.  One thing I have learned through research is that certain "niche" players have been promised over and over again , over the years a certain type of product and then have been disappointed when it was not delivered.  This early on it is never a sure bet.  Business = Gamble.   Always.  Jackpots are very few and far between.  But once and a while ..................


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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The game you cite is not scheduled for release until summer 2016. And I must admit it sounds good :

 

A Tri-Realm™ MMORPG where you can become a legendary warrior, crafter, or a leader of your Realm.

And similar although not exact.

 

It will be interesting to watch from a business stand point what happens. One thing I have learned through research is that certain "niche" players have been promised over and over again , over the years a certain type of product and then have been disappointed when it was not delivered. This early on it is never a sure bet. Business = Gamble. Always. Jackpots are very few and far between. But once and a while ..................

I don't expect to see crowfall for a year or two either. The whole beta group was great way to build hype and market the game tho. Edited by helix

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I don't expect to see crowfall for a year or two either. The whole beta group was great way to build hype and market the game tho.

Brilliant marketing!!!!!


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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I will ask though, do you really think we'd be creating an arena game if we are telling people to form guilds and alliances? Arena gameplay would never cater for these things. 

 

That response made me really sad because it implies that Arenas will not be included at all. From the pieces of information so far it sounds like that this game will only have massive zerg PvP battles and nothing else... which sounds terrible...

 

I knew this going to be a PvP focused game, but having only one mode of PvP (and that mode being only Mass zerg PvP) sounds really bad. I hope I am wrong.

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That response made me really sad because it implies that Arenas will not be included at all. From the pieces of information so far it sounds like that this game will only have massive zerg PvP battles and nothing else... which sounds terrible...

 

I knew this going to be a PvP focused game, but having only one mode of PvP (and that mode being only Mass zerg PvP) sounds really bad. I hope I am wrong.

I really doubt this game will be your normal, 3rd person/1st person view sort of thing. I am getting the vibe of something like you pick a archetype, build a castle of sorts and form alliances. All in one huge world. That is just me, I dont know.

 

Looking at the character screen, it does not look like your standard MMO customization. I think the main "hero" player character will have a smaller role in your whole experience in the game. I would think this will be something along the style of Albion.

Edited by hmmokay

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That response made me really sad because it implies that Arenas will not be included at all. From the pieces of information so far it sounds like that this game will only have massive zerg PvP battles and nothing else... which sounds terrible...

 

I knew this going to be a PvP focused game, but having only one mode of PvP (and that mode being only Mass zerg PvP) sounds really bad. I hope I am wrong.

It doesn't imply that at all. It simply states that Crowfall won't be an arena game but nothing stops players from competing in duels and matches.

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The answer to this is going to be made apparent over the next days and weeks. Each time we put something out we're giving you enough data to put the puzzle together, at the end you'll find out if its for you or not. 

 

 

I will ask though, do you really think we'd be creating an arena game if we are telling people to form guilds and alliances? Arena gameplay would never cater for these things. 

 

I'm sorry Tully, but you're wrong here. MechWarrior has had several online iterations and all have been, in essence, arena games. You form a group, drop in to a map, duke it out, then back to the lobby for another round. And yet every one of those iterations of MechWarrior have had guilds and alliances. Yes, its got quite a bit of background lore to pull from, and that contributes, but it shows your statement to be inaccurate.

That said, I still don't think you're doing an "arena game", though arena battles could still be a part of your game. Personally, I hope its not a large part.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I'm sorry Tully, but you're wrong here. MechWarrior has had several online iterations and all have been, in essence, arena games. You form a group, drop in to a map, duke it out, then back to the lobby for another round. And yet every one of those iterations of MechWarrior have had guilds and alliances. Yes, its got quite a bit of background lore to pull from, and that contributes, but it shows your statement to be inaccurate.

That said, I still don't think you're doing an "arena game", though arena battles could still be a part of your game. Personally, I hope its not a large part.

Look at this guy referencing Mechwarrior. I would give YOU all my cookies, but the dev from earlier earned them first.

 

 

I lied. There are no cookies.

GGclose

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I have done some research on this subject Shadowbane debuted in March of 2003 by independent studio Wolfpack and was sold to UBIsoft a mere 1 year later March of 2004.  Until closing July of 2008 the dev team for UBI split also and it was then the property of Straybullet.  The EMU's are private servers not company owned.  Private servers are run by individuals for many defunct games.  They can not charge to play or make profit from it in any way  shape or form as someone owns the rights and the copy rights to the original code, the name , etc.  To say it has been around for years is a correct statement but it has not been making money for years.  Major Corps are all about making money.  They will not invest capital into something that they project has no growth potential.  As you lose players you must gain players and in an amount that exceeds the amount you lose due to increase in costs ( inflation of basic sustainability function costs).  I absolutely agree that there is a player base that seems enthralled w/ SB.  Whether there is enough of those niche players to actually sustain a game geared solely towards them remains to be seem.  Whether it (SB)failed or succeeded is subjective based on whose eyes you are looking through.  

 

In response to this and some of the other posts that i'm too lazy to quote in this thread...

 

SB definitely failed as far as generating a good return on investment... i think most of the people on these forums are the people that played on EMUs or played long after the game had most of the players leave.

 

To someone using CSE and 3million...  CSE has much more clout than Artcraft does... CSE has people from mythic, who were big factors behind classic games like splatterball, magestorm, dark age of camelot... DAoC WAS a financial success unlike SB, and was a much much more popular pvp game...  That is why CSE can generate interest for their throwback game....

 

Any serious mmorpg studio that tells you they aren't in it for the profit are bsing you to some degree... they may not be in it with the same focus on money generation as an actiblizz might be... but they aren't there to break even...

 

What I kinda find weird is that if this company is about being real, and going against the grain... why beat around the bush... hype-building is typical marketing strategy... if you know this game isn't for everyone, and you also know what you are going for, why not talk about it?  You know there will be people following this game for weeks/months before enough of it is revealed to make them realize it isn't what they hoped for... why not be transparent about the pillars of the game, instead of wasting people's time or setting them up to be disappointed?  Because marketing... and people don't market to try and break even...

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We need a sandbox game with a ruleset for fighting, class design, city design, territory control design, terrain design for combat. Build in multiple scenarios for multiple endgame contents, than add players to this world and watch the dynamics of player vs player interaction and how they organize and evolve strategies to come out ahead.

 

My dream and hope of Crowfall... Of the next level of shadowbane.....

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In response to this and some of the other posts that i'm too lazy to quote in this thread...

 

SB definitely failed as far as generating a good return on investment... i think most of the people on these forums are the people that played on EMUs or played long after the game had most of the players leave.

 

To someone using CSE and 3million...  CSE has much more clout than Artcraft does... CSE has people from mythic, who were big factors behind classic games like splatterball, magestorm, dark age of camelot... DAoC WAS a financial success unlike SB, and was a much much more popular pvp game...  That is why CSE can generate interest for their throwback game....

 

Any serious mmorpg studio that tells you they aren't in it for the profit are bsing you to some degree... they may not be in it with the same focus on money generation as an actiblizz might be... but they aren't there to break even...

 

What I kinda find weird is that if this company is about being real, and going against the grain... why beat around the bush... hype-building is typical marketing strategy... if you know this game isn't for everyone, and you also know what you are going for, why not talk about it?  You know there will be people following this game for weeks/months before enough of it is revealed to make them realize it isn't what they hoped for... why not be transparent about the pillars of the game, instead of wasting people's time or setting them up to be disappointed?  Because marketing... and people don't market to try and break even...

Exactly!!!  My point and the point of others.  IMHO, with the marketing factor , this early on, the only way you can gauge interest ( since there is no playable model yet) is to put your concept out there and put it out there in a way that is excludes very few, with a disclaimer it may not be for everyone.  Open a page with registration and you have a high player base, it seems.  Everyone can turn the manifesto into something they can fit into because it is a left to the interpretation of who ever is reading it.  Like a triangle, a very broad base with large numbers.  The opening day numbers were huge, had it been more specific would those numbers have been the same?  Nope.  And numbers right now are all potential backers/ investors have to look at.  Is that transparent?  Nope.  Is it deceptive?  Nope.  No money has changed hands , no agreement has been formed, nothing has been breached.  Is it brilliant?  More possibly that.  The time invested by those that it may not be for is also useful because now they are emotionally invested and may try it anyways.  

 

Your statement  

"and people don't market to try and break even.."   Nothing truer has been ever posted in this forum.  


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Up to current date this looks like a MMO Tower Defense.

Fixed but customizable pokemons with no roleplaying elements. 

Maybe there is a "Capture the Flag" mini-game included too :D

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The answer to this is going to be made apparent over the next days and weeks. Each time we put something out we're giving you enough data to put the puzzle together, at the end you'll find out if its for you or not. 

 

 

I will ask though, do you really think we'd be creating an arena game if we are telling people to form guilds and alliances? Arena gameplay would never cater for these things. 

Guys,

When he says Arena, He is talking about MOBA, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena...

He is not talking about WoW Arenas.

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Its a MMOBA

I just keep seeing people talk about MOBA in various posts and finally had to say something.

There is no way this team is making a MOBA, its just a ridiculous thought. I believe Tully confirms that in the post.

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Exactly!!!  My point and the point of others.  IMHO, with the marketing factor , this early on, the only way you can gauge interest ( since there is no playable model yet) is to put your concept out there and put it out there in a way that is excludes very few, with a disclaimer it may not be for everyone.  Open a page with registration and you have a high player base, it seems.  Everyone can turn the manifesto into something they can fit into because it is a left to the interpretation of who ever is reading it.  Like a triangle, a very broad base with large numbers.  The opening day numbers were huge, had it been more specific would those numbers have been the same?  Nope.  And numbers right now are all potential backers/ investors have to look at.  Is that transparent?  Nope.  Is it deceptive?  Nope.  No money has changed hands , no agreement has been formed, nothing has been breached.  Is it brilliant?  More possibly that.  The time invested by those that it may not be for is also useful because now they are emotionally invested and may try it anyways.  

 

Your statement  

"and people don't market to try and break even.."   Nothing truer has been ever posted in this forum.  

May I ask if you are a pvper and which games you've played?  Just curious cause you seem to have a pretty rational head on your shoulders...

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May I ask if you are a pvper and which games you've played? Just curious cause you seem to have a pretty rational head on your shoulders...

Your point earlier is incorrect. No one fell into emus we continued playing.

 

The pop on live with paying customers was 25x bigger than the emus.

 

They made money it imo would have been almost impossible to have lost money.

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I just keep seeing people talk about MOBA in various posts and finally had to say something.

There is no way this team is making a MOBA, its just a ridiculous thought. I believe Tully confirms that in the post.

 

He said MMOBA. He was making a joke.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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