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One Account One Guild


Jihan

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I appreciate JTC's explanation of the complexities of interleaving data structures, and I completely believe and trust that the team is doing the best they can to find a good balance between the ideal and the practical.

 

With all that said, this decision has a strong negative impact on my desired play habits and I believe on the play habits of a great many others, and I would argue that building a game that people want to play is more important than building a game which has mathematically elegant databases.

 

Let's say I join Pax and enter my first Shadow campaign with one of the 3 passively training characters on my account. We're all having fun and all is well. While that campaign is ongoing, I join my second character to a God's Reach campaign. Because my account is locked to Pax, this second character is also in Pax. Does that mean that if there are other Pax players in that campaign that I must join the same faction as them? Or can I join any faction, possibly meaning that Pax will exist in multiple factions in the same campaign? Neither option is desirable.

 

Then what happens if Shadowclan starts up a hunger cult guild in a different dregs campaign and I really want to have my third character play with them? Does my first character suddenly lose his Pax affiliation in that first campaign? How is that a good idea?

 

Realistically, the outcome of this design choice will be that I, and anyone else who wants the freedom to play in different campaigns with different groups of people, will just create a personal guild which I can sub as desired to a different larger guild in each campaign I play. (Please don't tell me that subguild relationships are universal rather than campaign-specific; that would be a political nightmare.) I can't think that the personal guild scenario is any better from a data management standpoint than just allowing each character to join a different guild.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I don't mind it... it seems like they are adding much more weight to choosing a guild and where your loyalties lie. 

 

This paired with 1 char per campaign puts a ton of emphasis on the actual play experience... makes commitment and choices very important.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Would it be possible for guild leader to ban the account from the guild as a secondary approach to leaving the guild? (player request and leader approves, this could be under the circumstance of a contrast where both sides gain and the player can leave the guild at any moment as long as he or she requests to be removed)

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Unless there is significant value to having multiple characters under an account, Players (that can afford the $) will just have multiple accounts.  Those looking to infiltrate other guilds, most likely already have multiple accounts.

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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There can be only one... guild!

 

I do think it you have some valid concerns Jihan.  Creating a personal guild so you can have the freedom to swap in and out of guilds (subguilding) seems clunky and fiddly.  However, you could do this and think of it as being like lone mercenary or adventurer, joining different groups who pay well or seem to need your help.  Perhaps the only thing you'd lose would be your ability to keep your alts confidential and simultaneously embedded in other guilds.  Guilds would also probably not trust you too much, that is if they new you moved around to play with different, potentially competing groups.  

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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For Jihan!

 

Todd,

 

What the custard? Why would you create this massive hierarchy system (trees on trees on trees... word) and then not leave room for one of the aspects of the game you are designing for and are also seemingly promoting; espionage. How is it that you have taken one of the most basic pieces of older games, the ability to join any guild with any character, and turned it into something more complex than it really is? What kind of failure is this?

 

Obviously it is a failure that is all too common today in gaming, and it is one that stems directly from greed. Sorry, I don't buy it that allowing each individual character to be in whatever guild that character chooses to be in is too difficult, too convoluted, for your game's standards. If you have cluttered up the database that much, remove some of the other things people honestly don't give a custard about... like these world trees and campaign trees (or expand on those and make us care). To force players to purchase multiple accounts to spy with in an appropriate way (directly lodging a character in a guild and posing as a legitimate member) just screams give us more money!

 

I will say there is nothing wrong with your decision to do this if you would just come out and be honest about it. Consider rethinking this one.

 

~ Adall

Edited by Adall
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Seems like a pretty good decision... in shows like game of thrones when someone spies they are putting themselves at real risk... This kind of policy also makes spying a real risk... yes we know people will buy alternate accounts to try and achieve their spying anyway, but they've still added a deterrent to say the least which will help foster a game much more focused on player accountability and commitment to serious decisions. 

 

Now if you want to spy you really have to commit to it. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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If you have cluttered up the database that much, remove some of the other things people honestly don't give a custard about... like these world trees and campaign trees (or expand on those and make us care).

 

Some people like the decision Todd made regarding guilds on one account only and some don't. He predicted that and you fall clearly in the latter group. You're entitled to your own opinion of course, but please don't act like you're the spokesperson of the whole community. I like the concepts of Blood Stone and the Bane Circle rule sets and so far I'm in favor of the one guild = one account as well. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

 

I'm not here to defend Todd, I'm sure he's entirely capable of doing so himself, but your post annoyed me greatly. And I already got the label White Knight put on me by a certain part of the community anyway. The label is misplaced and putting labels on people really isn't nice, but that is besides the point and I don't care about it that much.

 

Todd explains why he made that decision and you (unsurprisingly) dismiss him instantly. You even call him greedy. That's one hell of an accusation. Your post is full of lack of trust, accusations of lying and drama-rich. This view does not represent the whole community. The devs have been open, answer questions in great detail and even make excuses while giving information. The latter isn't even needed, but he does so, because he knows he will get overreactions like yours.

 

There is no reason so far to assume Todd (or any other dev) is providing us with incorrect information. He said he's willing to revise his decision regarding the one guild = one account if it turns out the reasons for it shifts. Espionage is still possible, he also explains that. It being in a different way than you envision though.

 

Clearly the information about the one guild = one account has raised more questions people wants answers to. But there are better and more polite ways to ask for them.

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I have no problem with this feature for now, it is certainly much better than the extreme counterpart of multi-guilding, which as never worked properly, and I believe never will.

 

Once we can see how this one account = one guild thing works withing the game context then it is time for more harsh judgements.

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Guild Leader/ High Elder

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"Having one eye put out is certainly better than the extreme counterpart of having both feet cut off."

 

This is what's called a false dichotomy. There are other alternatives, such as not being maimed at all, or having one guild per character, which are much more palatable than the obviously questionable alternative presented.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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"Having one eye put out is certainly better than the extreme counterpart of having both feet cut off."

 

This is what's called a false dichotomy. There are other alternatives, such as not being maimed at all, or having one guild per character, which are much more palatable than the obviously questionable alternative presented.

What's palatable varies from person to person... some might want an EK-centric game, some might want a game with long ttks, some might not... what's best is to try and understand what they are trying to do and why they are trying to do it and whether it makes sense.... 

 

Edit:  If you have 1 guild per account, it makes it a pretty big deal which guild you choose to join. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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There are other alternatives, such as not being maimed at all, or having one guild per character, which are much more palatable than the obviously questionable alternative presented.

 

One alternative could be that we still have a choice on whether our alts will join the guild your account is bound to. This gives us the possibility to play on characters without being in a guild. If this is already possible, I don't know. That's one of my questions.

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One alternative could be that we still have a choice on whether our alts will join the guild your account is bound to. This gives us the possibility to play on characters without being in a guild. If this is already possible, I don't know. That's one of my questions.

Ya it'd be good to get some clarification whether 1 guild per account means all characters are hardlocked to that guild, or whether you can technically have some unguilded characters. 

 

I think overall this idea is good, the more of an actual commitment they make it to spy, the less people will spy, it will only be done by truly dedicated people to that playstyle, and with less spies information becomes much more valuable. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I don't mind it... it seems like they are adding much more weight to choosing a guild and where your loyalties lie. 

 

This paired with 1 char per campaign puts a ton of emphasis on the actual play experience... makes commitment and choices very important.

I digress, my absolute fear has come true.  I have agreed with VN...

 

But, do what I will do and run multiple accounts on multiple machines.  Bypass and circumvent all these restrictions...

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Ya it'd be good to get some clarification whether 1 guild per account means all characters are hardlocked to that guild, or whether you can technically have some unguilded characters. 

 

I think overall this idea is good, the more of an actual commitment they make it to spy, the less people will spy, it will only be done by truly dedicated people to that playstyle, and with less spies information becomes much more valuable. 

Hmm, through other conversations, I was told get a second account for spying.

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I digress, my absolute fear has come true.  I have agreed with VN...

 

But, do what I will do and run multiple accounts on multiple machines.  Bypass and circumvent all these restrictions...

I'm pretty sure you will be easily identifiable though with all your lag. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Well they said they are still working out the whole Guild to Sub-Guild thing will work so maybe they'll make it so you can only have one "main" guild but can have your alts in other sub guilds. Who knows at this point but personally I'd like to see more of the systems to see how this fits (or doesn't) with the rest of the game and its structure.

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If a wizard said to me "you must choose one kind of food to eat for the rest of your life, and if you eat anything else you will die", that would certainly increase the level of commitment and importance of making that choice, but it doesn't follow that increased commitment and importance of choice makes my life better in any way. Committing to play a game with only a single group of people is an important choice but not one which makes my life better if I enjoy playing games with lots of different people.

 

Spying is not the only application for people wanting to join different guilds with different characters, and in fact I'd expect that to be the least common reasoning. People dedicated to the spying game probably expect to need multiple accounts anyway. Someone who just wants to join one campaign with his friends from Shadowbane and a different campaign with his friends from Planetside probably does not expect to need multiple accounts to accomplish that.

 

Games like this live or die on social connectedness; the reason we keep playing is in large part because of the people we're playing with. Telling a player that they must buy a second box in order to enjoy a second set of social connections is counterproductive from a business standpoint.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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If a wizard said to me "you must choose one kind of food to eat for the rest of your life, and if you eat anything else you will die", that would certainly increase the level of commitment and importance of making that choice, but it doesn't follow that increased commitment and importance of choice makes my life better in any way. Committing to play a game with only a single group of people is an important choice but not one which makes my life better if I enjoy playing games with lots of different people.

 

Spying is not the only application for people wanting to join different guilds with different characters, and in fact I'd expect that to be the least common reasoning. People dedicated to the spying game probably expect to need multiple accounts anyway. Someone who just wants to join one campaign with his friends from Shadowbane and a different campaign with his friends from Planetside probably does not expect to need multiple accounts to accomplish that.

 

Games like this live or die on social connectedness; the reason we keep playing is in large part because of the people we're playing with. Telling a player that they must buy a second box in order to enjoy a second set of social connections is counterproductive from a business standpoint.

I like it though... I like player choice truly mattering and the game not being super convenience oriented.... want to play with 2 different groups?  Try to get them merged, or choose where your loyalties lie... it's great!  Plus no one ever said you had to be guilded with someone to play with them.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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