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Skill Caps


Verot
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I understand that individual skills can be raised a variety of ways (Promotion, Discipline, Advantages, etc) however I have not seen any mention of an overall skill cap similar to what was used in UO. Has there been any discussion that if I decide to take a certain skill to 175 that it will limit how far I can develop some of my other skills?

 

As an example lets assume the total skill cap is 1000, a character could have many combinations of skill allocations depending on if they want to be highly specialized or if they would prefer to be more well rounded.

 

10 skills at 100.

 

5 skills at 100  and 7 skills at ~70ish.

 

3 skills at 175 and 5 skills at 95.

 

3 skills at 175 and 7 skills at ~68ish.

 

5 skills at 175 and 1 skill at 125.

 

 

Obviously you can split this any number of ways depending on how you want develop your character.

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I am interested in this as well.

 

But I think there won't be many spells to choose from (once you got profession and disciplines), and you'll be able to max them all.

I still prefer the scenario where even inside a specific path, you have to choose X spells or at least choose where to spend points on.

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I don't believe there will be any kind of skill cap like your thinking.  It's more like your limited in what you can choose to raise skill caps.  Like some advantages / disadvantages might raise one cap while lowering another.  So I'm looking at it like all the decisions you make will determine what your cap is but there is not hard coded cap.  That being said.. it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't any options to allow you to take a specific cap over like 175 or something like that.

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I was under the impression that skill caps would be purely based on promotions, disciplines, advantages and other things like that. With those limiters in place you should be able to eventually take everything to your build specific maximum. Also with those limiters in place I don't see a need for the skill capping system you are talking about.

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From what I understand, there is a skill use cap and a passive trained cap... and those caps can be extended by character stat allocation during character creation, along with the selection of archetype, profession, and disciplines.  

 

I haven't heard anything about an overall max cap, although there will be a natural cap based on the build mentioned above.

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Thanks for the feedback, I was trying to reconcile crafting vs non-crafting characters, primarily from my experience with UO. Again I understand that we are supposedly going to be limited to 3 Disciplines per character and that those will have an impact on our skill maximums. Have any on the developers mentioned any crafter specific professions and how that would be reconciled against the different Archtypes? I suppose as the developers release more information all of these question will work themselves out, for now I suppose I'm left with good ole speculation.

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Thanks for the feedback, I was trying to reconcile crafting vs non-crafting characters, primarily from my experience with UO. Again I understand that we are supposedly going to be limited to 3 Disciplines per character and that those will have an impact on our skill maximums. Have any on the developers mentioned any crafter specific professions and how that would be reconciled against the different Archtypes? I suppose as the developers release more information all of these question will work themselves out, for now I suppose I'm left with good ole speculation.

I believe they said that foregmaster will start off capable of crafting some things that other archetypes would have to take disciplines or professions for.

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I believe they said that foregmaster will start off capable of crafting some things that other archetypes would have to take disciplines or professions for.

 

 

That would make it similar to how some of the Promotions/Runes worked in Shadowbane.

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The idea of a total skill cap like UOs is occasionally asked about by players, but there's no info from the devs hinting there might be anything like that. My expectation is that the only cap on total skills will be the sum of the character's individual skill caps.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I believe skill caps are going to be built in such a fashion that allows for sustained progression - but with a boost at the start.

 

The goal is to allow new players to still compete with the vets as soon as possible. The more skills you have, the slower they're going to train.

 

You REALLY don't want an early Darkfall 1 system, where you need to play a few hours a day for 6 months before you can compete with the veterans.

 

This was pretty much confirmed by a post the devs made a long time ago, not heard much on it since.

 

It was likened to Eve online, but on a much more accelerated scale.

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Each skill has an individual cap based upon archetype. That cap can be raised or lowered based upon advantages, disadvantages, runes, and promotion. There is no indication of a total skill cap. Really, there is no need to put one into place. You can only select three runes, a limited number of advantages and disadvantages, and one promotion class. This naturally limits how high your skills can go.

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I understand what has been said about the promotions/disciplines/advantages etc, but correct me if I'm wrong but Shadowbane worked in a similar manner. You still had to allocate your skill points accordingly, you were not able to max out every skill that was "available" to your character based on starting class, promotion class, and runes.

 

It has been quite a while but I remember some of the later Warrior builds which we utilized that revolved around training medium armor and archery combined with some of the runes that made it quite effective. Even though the Warrior had access to Heavy armor it was desired to use medium armor because of dexterity issues etc. Again just because the character had access to a large number of skills based upon selection of certain runes it was not possible for them to max them all.

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Shadowbane issued a fixed number of character development points per level, which meant that the amount of training you could commit was a function of how high you could get your character level. Crowfall's system doesn't have levels.

 

With that said, could ACE in theory implement an overall skill cap? Sure, they could, but they haven't said anything which would indicate they intend to.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I'd prefer a system where they have an overall cap but as you approach that cap, the skills you aren't actively using start to decay a little.  So you can constantly fine tune your skills based on what you are actively using.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Why? What makes that system better, to you, than one where you can simply train all of your skills up to their individual caps, given enough time and no rerolling?

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I think the time issue is the big component.

 

Again I'll go back to UO. In UO you had 700 skill points to allocate between dozens of skills. I could choose to select 7 skills and train them all to 100 or I could decide to only max out 5 of them and split the remaining 200 up to round out my character in various ways.

 

If you have a hard cap on skill points it forces a character to make choices as it relates to those options available to him. For instance if I roll a melee character, I might have the options of training 2h axes, 2h maces, 2h swords, 2h spear etc. Each of these weapons has inherent advantages/disadvantages and as I such I must deside which weapon my character is proficient with, I can't simply train all 4 given enough time. In UO as well as in SB a mechanism was in place to "unlearn" skills if you changed your mind. In UO you simply toggled the skill so that it could decrease and started using another skill, for example I don't want to use swords anymore I want to became an expert in maces, i would toggle swords down and start hitting things with a mace. In SB you had to pay to remove skills and then allocate those points elsewhere.

 

What makes this system better in my eyes is that it removes the advantage of time. If after a certain amount of time player A was able to max all of the previously mentioned 2h weapon skills, he could look at an opponent see that he is wearing an armor that is weak against a particular weapon type and equip that weapon to gain an advantage. Some people will say that is the "skill" part of the game, knowing what weapon to use in what situation, but again my opinion is that you gained an advantage simply because you had more time to passively train more skills than a newer player. Had player B had the same time in training that player A had then perhaps they could have swapped to a different armor type (assuming armor type proficiency) and countered the change that player A made to their weapon choice.

 

The time factor can be a big one, assuming the time frame laid out by the devs of 1 month to get 100 in a primary, 2 months for a secondary, and 3 months for a tertiary skill. You could end up in a situation where two equally skilled players (1 having played for 1 year and the other 2 years) are no longer evenly matched simply because another player can swap weapons and the other can't. Its not that one player is better than the other based on skill but that one has more options available.

 

Having a hard cap on skill points requires that players make meaningful choices and given the mechanism to alter that choice allow them to adjust to different play styles. It is entirely possible that a player could decide to train both 2h Spears and 2h Maces, but this would come at the expense of some other skill such as riding proficiency. In this instance the player has made a choice that he feels having the ability to swap weapon types based off a given situation is more advantageous than being able to ride a bit faster.

 

Ultimately it depends on how the Promotion/Discipline/Advantages system pans out. We know a few things such as that Promotion path is permanent and that you can swap disciplines. What we don't know is how the specifics will work out, and until we learn more its purely speculation.

 

I like total skill caps as it ensures that skill as a character designer is more important that how long I've been able to passively train some skills.

Edited by Verot
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Why? What makes that system better, to you, than one where you can simply train all of your skills up to their individual caps, given enough time and no rerolling?

Because i like there to be meaningful choices in games...

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I'd prefer a system where they have an overall cap but as you approach that cap, the skills you aren't actively using start to decay a little.  So you can constantly fine tune your skills based on what you are actively using.

 

That approach didn't work in early UO and they eventually implemented locks and up/down arrows for skills. I'm sure you know why it didn't work. :rolleyes:

This basically makes it a normal skill cap, like every other game.

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That approach didn't work in early UO and they eventually implemented locks and up/down arrows for skills. I'm sure you know why it didn't work. :rolleyes:

This basically makes it a normal skill cap, like every other game.

Crowfall isn't UO...

 

Or any other game for that matter... it is crowfall....

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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