Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
VIKINGNAIL

Skill Proficiency Level Decay Upon Death...

Recommended Posts

Skill decay upon death can be a good incentive that promotes risk vs reward. UO/EQ/DAOC all used a skill decay system to one degree or another.

 

For example, you and your friends see a group of players escorting someone who is loaded down with resources to one of the embargo points. You have limited items in your inventory so the risk of loss at this point is marginal. If you know that all you risking is the gear you are wearing and a few items in your inventory then you are likely to attack without a second though. If however, there is a risk that you and your friends might be killed then you will think twice before jumping into battle.

 

I think this is an interesting topic worth further discussion.

 

As for practicing, this could be handle in multiple ways. First we know that there can be different rules for different CWs, so it is possible that you could have no penalty on some and a 10% skill loss penalty on others while also using the tiered approach suggested by VN with hard cutout points. EKs could just as easily disable the skill loss issue. There are many options available that would support a skill decay system and I think it could add an additional layer of risk.

 

It all depends on how much of a penalty is involved and if there is anything the player can do to mitigate that loss, praying at your grave etc.

I think one great thing about ACE's design is the flexibility it gives them... they can have rulesets where death doesn't really sting much at all, and rulesets where death is excruciatingly annoying, and everything in between.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one great thing about ACE's design is the flexibility it gives them... they can have rulesets where death doesn't really sting much at all, and rulesets where death is excruciatingly annoying, and everything in between.

 

 

They have even talked about adding perma-death rulesets which kicks you out of the campaign when you die.

Now that would be a fun place to pvp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have even talked about adding perma-death rulesets which kicks you out of the campaign when you die.

Now that would be a fun place to pvp.

Yea i'd love to play 1 life campaign rulesets... 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my two cents, but there should be a harsh skill lock to prevent earning experience or new skills. Maybe a timer that only counts down when actively logged in, or an xp debt that has to be worked off.

 

Games without a harsh penalty for dying do not reflect realiism in games. For example, in a real battle, nobody would just charge in. There would be tactics invovled and players would think through their actions. When games have no penalty you get players who attack without thinking, making it harder in the long run for players to take or keep positions because of the loss of numbers.

 

Another penalty could be something as simple as longer and longer respawn times upon death, which reduces as you remain alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my two cents, but there should be a harsh skill lock to prevent earning experience or new skills. Maybe a timer that only counts down when actively logged in, or an xp debt that has to be worked off.

 

Games without a harsh penalty for dying do not reflect realiism in games. For example, in a real battle, nobody would just charge in. There would be tactics invovled and players would think through their actions. When games have no penalty you get players who attack without thinking, making it harder in the long run for players to take or keep positions because of the loss of numbers.

 

Another penalty could be something as simple as longer and longer respawn times upon death, which reduces as you remain alive.

Ya basically within mmorpgs the pain of death has greatly been diminished as of late in favor of convenience.... that actually contributes overall to less intuitive play.  If you look at competitive games (i mean esports here) you still see an emphasis on intelligent play because at the top level people understand the setbacks of dying are really bad in those games.

 

Give people harsh consequences for playing incorrectly and you will encourage players to learn how to play correctly. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Give people harsh consequences for playing incorrectly and you will encourage players to learn how to play correctly. 

 

Or you'll have an empty server.  It is a balancing act.

 

 

I personally don't think something like this is needed.  I'd also bet this isn't even something the devs would consider.  In a passive leveling game, this really doesn't even make sense.  I mean, I'm sure you can come up with ways in which you think it would work and be a benefit to the game.  All you need to do is have an alt which you fully level while offline and then you can play that character when done.  Circumvention achieved.

 

Loosing inventory / equipped items can be a pretty harsh penalty at times... not always of course, but at times it most surely can be.  Then add in the fact that in sieges you have the chance to loose everything you've worked for in a campaign and that can be pretty harsh to some.  Then on top of all that if travel isn't easy and you die and get spawned pretty far off from where you were... I think all those are plenty penalty enough for dying in a game like this.  Maybe it's the type of thing they can do for certain campaign rulesets.. but then again, some might not bother going into a campaign like that until they had a fully leveled character if that was the case.

 

 

I definitely think harsh death penalties are good for the game.  But, if you go to far you start getting to the point of people getting frustrated when they die and then quitting the game.  You can't just say they need to get better either.  I don't want an empty game.  I want a PvP MMORPG that finally thrives.  And yes, sometimes that means compromise whether you like it or not.  Anyways, that's my take. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or you'll have an empty server.  It is a balancing act.

 

 

I personally don't think something like this is needed.  I'd also bet this isn't even something the devs would consider.  In a passive leveling game, this really doesn't even make sense.  I mean, I'm sure you can come up with ways in which you think it would work and be a benefit to the game.  All you need to do is have an alt which you fully level while offline and then you can play that character when done.  Circumvention achieved.

 

Loosing inventory / equipped items can be a pretty harsh penalty at times... not always of course, but at times it most surely can be.  Then add in the fact that in sieges you have the chance to loose everything you've worked for in a campaign and that can be pretty harsh to some.  Then on top of all that if travel isn't easy and you die and get spawned pretty far off from where you were... I think all those are plenty penalty enough for dying in a game like this.  Maybe it's the type of thing they can do for certain campaign rulesets.. but then again, some might not bother going into a campaign like that until they had a fully leveled character if that was the case.

 

 

I definitely think harsh death penalties are good for the game.  But, if you go to far you start getting to the point of people getting frustrated when they die and then quitting the game.  You can't just say they need to get better either.  I don't want an empty game.  I want a PvP MMORPG that finally thrives.  And yes, sometimes that means compromise whether you like it or not.  Anyways, that's my take. ;)

Well the whole point of coining yourself as a more ruthless pvp game is that you are trying to get the players who want something more than what is currently offered.  They shouldn't have LFR standards for PvP, they should have high standards for it.  If Joe Blow logs into the game and gets frustrated that he died a few times and can't figure out how to stay alive and rage uninstalls, he probably isn't the most reliable customer to have on board any way. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those with VIP accounts, this proposal would mean every death cost the player real money. That's a hard mechanic to sell.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those with VIP accounts, this proposal would mean every death cost the player real money. That's a hard mechanic to sell.

No it wouldn't mean that at all...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm paying $15/mo to earn skillpoints on 3 players instead of 1, and a death costs me skillpoints, then it cost me some fraction of that $15.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm paying $15/mo to earn skillpoints on 3 players instead of 1, and a death costs me skillpoints, then it cost me some fraction of that $15.

It would cost you points whether you were paying 15 dollars a month or not, your argument is invalid. 

 

You might as well be claiming that anything in game that costs people any sort of time is costing VIP accounts money. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I might not as well be claiming that, because paying for VIP doesn't give me "anything in game that costs people any sort of time", it only gives me skillpoints.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the whole point of coining yourself as a more ruthless pvp game is that you are trying to get the players who want something more than what is currently offered.  They shouldn't have LFR standards for PvP, they should have high standards for it.  If Joe Blow logs into the game and gets frustrated that he died a few times and can't figure out how to stay alive and rage uninstalls, he probably isn't the most reliable customer to have on board any way. 

 

Try and justify things anyway you want.  An empty server is an empty server.  I don't have a big problem with harsh death penalties but I'd prefer a full server.  So it's important for them to not go too harsh.  Now, you can argue that you don't think it's too harsh.. But I'd argue that there's a reason most games have gone away from harsh death penalties.  Of course Crowfall isn't supposed to be a game for everyone, but it'd be nice not to have another Darkfall or one of the many other PvP MMOs that have slowly (or quickly) bleeded off subs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try and justify things anyway you want.  An empty server is an empty server.  I don't have a big problem with harsh death penalties but I'd prefer a full server.  So it's important for them to not go too harsh.  Now, you can argue that you don't think it's too harsh.. But I'd argue that there's a reason most games have gone away from harsh death penalties.  Of course Crowfall isn't supposed to be a game for everyone, but it'd be nice not to have another Darkfall or one of the many other PvP MMOs that have slowly (or quickly) bleeded off subs.

We've already seen a huge boom in games with harsh penalties that have great populations...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If training was active, I might have considered this.

 

I don't like being advantaged or disadvantaged against someone only 'cause one of us has died too many times in the recent past. While penalties like loot on death are easily "solvable" in the short period by accumulating equip and items before the fight, skill decay can't be solved with passive training.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try and justify things anyway you want.  An empty server is an empty server.  I don't have a big problem with harsh death penalties but I'd prefer a full server.  So it's important for them to not go too harsh.  Now, you can argue that you don't think it's too harsh.. But I'd argue that there's a reason most games have gone away from harsh death penalties.  Of course Crowfall isn't supposed to be a game for everyone, but it'd be nice not to have another Darkfall or one of the many other PvP MMOs that have slowly (or quickly) bleeded off subs.

Yeah to me I see a difference between Harsh penalties and Punishing penalties. Harsh penalties make you want to/need to play better, but punishing penalties simply serve to punish you for just playing the game. There is certainly a sweet spot in there where you can go too far. So far seems like Crowfall is in a good spot with its penalties and anything more could risk having diminishing returns and do more harm then good to the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I assume the incentive to not die is that you'll lose all the resources you gathered which will take some time to get back and the fact that there's no apparent fast-travel system, so the distance travelled also punishes you. These seem like natural punishments for deaths and a very organic way to do things, and different rulesets can have different rules on the harshness of death.

 

However I don't like the idea of dying directly punishing skill proficiency in a game which boasts non-vertical progression. Like those above me have stated, it is essentially making it more likely you'll die again just because you died once. In games with horizontal progression, then horizontal penalties should naturally be the better option.

Edited by Dondagora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...