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Sengi

A Shield Is Not A Folding Chair.

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Using ones shield as a weapon whether its the traditional looking shield slam like freeze posted above or an over the head strike looks pretty dark and brutal to me.

Yeah well that's just like your opinion, man.

Unless the opinion is weak, there's no significance to saying so.

 

It is the opinion of anyone who appreciates HEMA or knows how a shield or combat actually works that "that" attack looks ridiculous.

 

Personally, I file it right next to the excessive sword spins and double jumping knights as ACE standard of combat animation.

 

If their aim is to look comical though, than they have succeeded.

 

If I was being critical, I'd say that the time wasted removing an arm shield from its strap and lifting it over your head to completely eliminate the protective value of the equipment could better be spent striking the foe repeatedly, and it would be easier to deploy the weight of the shield plus all of your body weight in a downward strike if the super gravity defiant knight did a leap and fall shield punch, he'd actually maintain superior grip with one hand in the strap holding the hand grip than with both hands on the edges.

 

He would also deal more damage striking with the edge than the face of the shield, a flat bash is only preferable because it maintains obstruction while striking, a benefit completely lost if your holding the shield over you head, you'd only want to strike with the edge.

 

Worst observation though, is that with the sword still loosely held in the right hand along with the shield, any amateur fencer could knock the sword and maybe the shield out of the knights hand simultaneously in what would be any easily executed counter.

 

It's funny how these legendary class warriors only ever exercise legendary strength while exercising complete ignorance of martial arts.

 

A tastefully crafted realistic attack would be far more brutal and amazing. But hey, they are clearly going for comedy :-/

 

P.S. a shield is a weapon, it isn't necessary to state that it's used like a weapon.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Unless the opinion is weak, there's no significance to saying so.

 

 

It was a joke, a quote from the movie Big Lebowski or something. So relax dude.

 

As for the rest, might be cliché by now but must repeat "Funism>Realism". It looks fun, comical is subjective but again it doesn't have to be real IMO.

Edited by pang

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Your opinion about whether it's fun is purely subjective, I guarantee that a realistic attack could be exchanged in to be more appreciable to a wider audience. But that's just the claim of BahamutKaiser, as much as that is worth.

 

Let's not pretend your acceptance and complacency amount any competition with the quality of challenges presented against it.

 

And quoting a mocking remark isn't blameless, or amusing, own what you write.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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There are games that go for this hyper realism with both graphics and animation like Kingdom Come:Deliverance .. Crowfall is not one of them.

So complaining about certain animations being "over the top" is rather silly if you ask me.

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Your opinion about whether it's fun is purely subjective, I guarantee that a realistic attack could be exchanged in to be more appreciable to a wider audience. But that's just the claim of BahamutKaiser, as much as that is worth.

 

Let's not pretend your acceptance and complacency amount any competition with the quality of challenges presented against it.

 

And quoting a mocking remark isn't blameless, or amusing, own what you write.

Not getting a joke doesn't mean the joke teller had ill intent.

 

Why you always so mad and serious man lighten up.

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I'm not always mad or serious, your always tediously advocating for ACE with a completely flippant disrespect for the significance and benefit of feedback, so you get the same kind of response.

 

The game doesn't have to be what it is, and we don't have to leave it only to ACE judgement. There is plenty of ignorant remarks to check on the internet, but it is even less productive to challenge everything without discernment.

 

And you can tell that nonsensical claim about a joke to every unsuccessful comedian who can't make a living.

 

Assuming that your opinion is self validated and that anyone else has to convince you otherwise while being unerring defiant is chauvinistic and bigoted. The only difference between you and VN is what you support. If you didn't act so obstinate you'd experience the variety of expressions I have beside disapproval.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I'm not always mad or serious, your always tediously advocating for ACE with a completely flippant disrespect for the significance and benefit of feedback, so you get the same kind of response.

 

The game doesn't have to be what it is, and we don't have to leave it only to ACE judgement. There is plenty of ignorant remarks to check on the internet, but it is even less productive to challenge everything without discernment.

 

And you can tell that nonsensical claim about a joke to every unsuccessful comedian who can't make a living.

 

Assuming that your opinion is self validated and that anyone else has to convince you otherwise while being unerring defiant is chauvinistic and bigoted. The only difference between you and VN is what you support. If you didn't act so obstinate you'd experience the variety of expressions I have beside disapproval.

lol wtf. Did I kick your puppy or call your mom a loose in a previous life or something? You certainly spend enough time thinking about how and why I post stuff. Most of which isn't true btw. Best advice would be to take my opinion for whats it worth like everyone else's. If you can't for some reason not read into and see something that's not there in my posts as opposed to everyone else's then perhaps the ignore function should be your next move.

 

 

There are games that go for this hyper realism with both graphics and animation like Kingdom Come:Deliverance .. Crowfall is not one of them.

So complaining about certain animations being "over the top" is rather silly if you ask me.

Basically this. Can talk about what would prefer to see, but stating that Crowfall MUST be a certain way is a bit much, IMO.

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Not discounting your opinion, but you have to be able to balance fun with realism. There are many aspects of the game which require you to suppress reality, least of which I believe is the fact that a knight is going to smack you in the face with his shield. A lot of what is done in regards to skills is to facilitate a particular game mechanic, dodge/block/stun/attack etc and while there may be multiple ways of doing so, sometimes it is nice to be original. Yes this might mean that in the true sense of martial arts it is unrealistic or inefficient it will provide a mechanism to accomplish the desired effect without looking the same as another game. I have yet to see this style of shield attack and personally find it refreshing. If I can accept that a knight in full plate is capable of performing a dodge roll or leaping high in the air, I can certainly accept that he is capable of performing the attack as it is currently animated.

Edited by Verot

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I do take your opinion for what it's worth pang... And no matter how worth... your opinion is, it's not effective to ignore statements which everyone else is interacting with in a conversation. it's quite obnoxious to state that your going to act however you like and tell other people to avoid it if they don't like it.

 

Dismissing that for now though. Realism is not in competition with fun. The statement was fundamentally flawed as soon as ACE issued it simply because there are many realistic behaviors imitated already for the sake of fun, and virtually every person requesting a realistic feature believes it would be more fun. This discussion has always actually been about what different people think would be more fun, and trying to juxtapose realism against fun is ignorant.

 

I agree that in the scheme of all the other ridiculous, impractical and over the top actions designed, that removing your shield and hammering someone is just another account. That's why I didn't really fuss about it in the official discussion. I'm actually mildly pleased that their even employing the shield as much as they are, with their current direction, that's as much as I'd hope for anyway.

 

That doesn't however make it good, or better than more realistic attacks, and it would be better with one less silly action.

 

It is what it is, I'm less concerned with how well it is, and more concerned with the amount of cheap logic leveled to defend it. It isn't good, period.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I do take your opinion for what it's worth pang... And no matter how worth... your opinion is, it's not effective to ignore statements which everyone else is interacting with in a conversation. it's quite obnoxious to state that your going to act however you like and tell other people to avoid it if they don't like it.

 

Dismissing that for now though. Realism is not in competition with fun. The statement was fundamentally flawed as soon as ACE issued it simply because there are many realistic behaviors imitated already for the sake of fun, and virtually every person requesting a realistic feature believes it would be more fun. This discussion has always actually been about what different people think would be more fun, and trying to juxtapose realism against fun is ignorant.

 

I agree that in the scheme of all the other ridiculous, impractical and over the top actions designed, that removing your shield and hammering someone is just another account. That's why I didn't really fuss about it in the official discussion. I'm actually mildly pleased that their even employing the shield as much as they are, with their current direction, that's as much as I'd hope for anyway.

 

That doesn't however make it good, or better than more realistic attacks, and it would be better with one less silly action.

 

It is what it is, I'm less concerned with how well it is, and more concerned with the amount of cheap logic leveled to defend it. It isn't good, period.

The statement wasn't flawed at all, they value fun more than realism, that does not mean that realism can't be fun, it simply means one has a higher priority for them. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Are we talking about what's real or what's normal for a video game here, because slamming a shield on someone will generally knock them down so that can be considered real.  No it's not normal for a video game, it's different.  Different can be good.  

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It's flawed because it produces a very broad and ignorant generalization about realism which white knights can't distinguish or contextualize.

No it produces a very easy to understand idea about what they value.  You just happen to make it out as something it is not because it doesn't fall in line with your thinking.  Nothing more nothing less...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Are we talking about what's real or what's normal for a video game here, because slamming a shield on someone will generally knock them down so that can be considered real.  No it's not normal for a video game, it's different.  Different can be good.  

Exactly.

 

Plus we got to take the whole picture into account here. If we first read the Bio and info on the knights webpage on the main site, we can clearly see this isn't the chivalrous, valiant hero based knight archetype we are used to seeing. Nope this is more the fallen hero the fallen angel so to speak. The theme is dark and brutal, so yes having an ability that has him with both hands swing his shield overhead on his foes fits right in, IMO.

 

and yes the rest of the realism based arguments kind of fall away as well when we take ACE's already stated design concepts to mind. That's not white knighting or w/e some want to use as arguments because they can't actually come up with real points, thats just simple facts.

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I don't see the reason to argue realism versus fun when it comes to an animation, it's more about what kind of gut reaction it elicits when you see it.  Apparently enough of us had the same reaction to warrant a discussion, but I don't think we are the plurality.  No amount of arguments for or against will change a purely subjective reaction.  I don't like the animation as is and no amount of reasoning to the contrary will change my opinion, but I don't think it's game breaking either, though it would make me resent seeing it if I were to play a Knight.  I think there are equally "unrealistic" animations that would have looked cooler, but again that's purely opinion on my part. 

 

I would ask that people not use the fun>realism argument to beat up all opposition, because while realism is not subjective the idea of fun is very subjective; it's an equation always in favor of those opposed to realism. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive; sometimes things can be both realistic and fun, imagine that.


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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No it produces a very easy to understand idea about what they value. You just happen to make it out as something it is not because it doesn't fall in line with your thinking. Nothing more nothing less...

Incorrect, it is a very basic priority which is misunderstood by people who can't operate basic logic, clearly yourself since you plainly mistook my thorough explanation.

 

Of course I don't expect the lacking to observe their own ignorance. Stay irrelevant :-/


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Incorrect, it is a very basic priority which is misunderstood by people who can't operate basic logic, clearly yourself since you plainly mistook my thorough explanation.

 

Of course I don't expect the lacking to observe their own ignorance. Stay irrelevant :-/

Sounds like you are making it fairly personal just because people don't see eye to eye with your interpretation of something very basic that ACE said. 

 

I think the "basic logic" is pretty easy to understand.  ACE values fun > realism... so when they have to make a choice between something being fun or it being realistic they will pick fun. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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