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Verot

Making Eks Matter To Everyone

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I have seen several comments where players have expressed concern about how to make EKs matter, at least to our hardcore brethren.

 

We all know there is a segment of players who will gravitate towards EKs and there are players who will gravitate towards CWs and others who are interested equally in both. The players who are truly invested in their EK have a very strong incentive to participate in CWs, namely through the collection and exporting of resources to continue growing their EK. Players interested in limited or no import CWs have little to no reason, that has been made clear yet, to want to participate in the EK aspects of the game.

 

I"M NOT ADVOCATING FORCING PLAYERS TO DO ANYTHING - just so I'm clear.

 

Outside of any permanence, the only thing a CW player gets from the game will be bragging rights, cool but hard to measure. We know that PvP can be part of an EK, the question becomes how do incentivize this style of play? Outside of any known features discussed by the devs this will mostly be up to the players. There will inevitably be someone who will act as a broker to hold resources/property put up as a wager between some set of people (individual/guild/alliance etc) until a winner is declared. I think it would be interesting if players had a set of controls which could be used to tightly define the ruleset and win conditions for pvp that is structured in their EK.

 

Off the top of my head, lets say I am a merchant who wishes to bring in new players to my EK so that I can sell them my wares. I set up a week long pvp scenario in which players battle for control of the strongholds in my EK. The winner as determined by a known win condition will receive as their prize a percentage of taxes for a month. The controls are in place to enforce all parties abide by the rules and the payout is received as negotiated. While I understand that to one extent or another nefarious event coordinators will soon have no market left to work with, it is nice sometimes to have system control mechanisms in place which keep some semblance of fairness.

 

Let say a hardcore PvP guild wants to organize an elite only battlefield to ensure stiff competition with no noobs mucking things up so that none of the competitors have any excuse. They set up their EK into rival kingdoms each of which has a set of strongholds that could be captured. Each side submits a buy-in which is held in a "compettion vault" and then heads off to battle. Rules could be set that strong holds are open to attack only during set windows (just like the bloodstones). 

 

Probably not perfect examples, but depending on the tools made available to us it could be quite entertaining. The point is that players would have the tools to define the play style that suits them best. Hardcore guilds have an incentive to build their EK as the more developed it is the more elaborate style rule sets they can put in place.

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Off the top of my head, lets say I am a merchant who wishes to bring in new players to my EK so that I can sell them my wares. 

 

 

This is countered by the 0%import terminator style ruleset which every pvper with a shred of respect is going to run. So pvpers wont be buying any wares from shops because they dont need them at all.

 

 

Let say a hardcore PvP guild wants to organize an elite only battlefield to ensure stiff competition with no noobs mucking things up so that none of the competitors have any excuse. They set up their EK into rival kingdoms each of which has a set of strongholds that could be captured. Each side submits a buy-in which is held in a "compettion vault" and then heads off to battle. Rules could be set that strong holds are open to attack only during set windows (just like the bloodstones). 

 

this one could work, but I dont see pvpers spending time and effort building up their EK castles to only have small arena type battles.

 

 

In the end the EK is nothing more than a dollhouse for the wizkids to play with whilst the real gamers head to battle in the 0%  import dregs.

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this one could work, but I dont see pvpers spending time and effort building up their EK castles to only have small arena type battles.

 

 

True, but I think this depends on the size of the guild in question.

 

anything that keeps a guild in the EK, keeps them out of campaigns. That's been said several times. Even by JTodd.

 

Agreed, at the same time, if you were able to limit the battle time to a small window it would not have a large impact on the CW. What else are the hardcore players going to do with all those resources they win from the CW? If they have a mechanism to stroke their ego against like minded players and set stakes which are fun and enjoyable why not do it. It does not preclude you from doing both CW and EK.

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True, but I think this depends on the size of the guild in question.

 

 

 

Agreed, at the same time, if you were able to limit the battle time to a small window it would not have a large impact on the CW. What else are the hardcore players going to do with all those resources they win from the CW? If they have a mechanism to stroke their ego against like minded players and set stakes which are fun and enjoyable why not do it. It does not preclude you from doing both CW and EK.

They will maintain enough to keep buffs and sell the rest for in game or real life cash.

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Great discussion and a difficult one.  There does need to be more EK love.  ACE has said multiple times they expect many players to ignore EK's.  That may be music to the ears of the players that just enjoy the thrill of combat, but it would leave the game shallow in the end.  Why have EK's at all, unless it is just for fundraising?

 

I am looking forward to hearing more ideas on this topic, hoping for a more fulfilling EK vision.


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They will maintain enough to keep buffs and sell the rest for in game or real life cash.

 

You may very well be right and  a portion of the population will likely do exactly that , but I tend to believe that is a fringe part of the population just as the perma EK folks are going to be a fringe population. Most players fall somewhere in between, so if the tools are available then it only adds to enhance game play.

 

I'm simply advocating for more control of the EKs which will allow us to shape and enforce the PvP rules in an EK.

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Great discussion and a difficult one.  There does need to be more EK love.  ACE has said multiple times they expect many players to ignore EK's.  That may be music to the ears of the players that just enjoy the thrill of combat, but it would leave the game shallow in the end.  Why have EK's at all, unless it is just for fundraising?

 

I am looking forward to hearing more ideas on this topic, hoping for a more fulfilling EK vision.

 

I think that the EKs are here mainly to palliate the temporal nature of the worlds and to increase the revenue.

 

Usually players who invest a couple of months in a virtual world are not used to have everything they've accomplished erased. The EK helps with this feeling of persistence I guess and allows people to preserve some parts of their progression and accomplishment.

 

The EKs also allow the players to purchase items through the store without a significant impact on the gameplay. If we were able to buy castles and bring them in the campaigns, the pay-to-win issue would probably arise.

 

I believe that ideally we would need a battle field in Crowfall where we can use everything we got in our EKs but designed in a way that it doesn't result in a pay-to-win situation.

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I agree, but that is too shallow for an MMO.  That is hardly more than Steam cards.   It would be a real missed opportunity if the EK's don't have a game dynamic of their own, especially EK's that are communities.   I would argue that EK's are the social fiber of CF.  Otherwise, it is just another fly by night MOBA. 


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EKs are the cash crop design, this is quite obvious when you consider they are attempting to ensure campaigns cannot be pay to win and yet they need to have a cash shop.

 

 

I agree, but that is too shallow for an MMO.  That is hardly more than Steam cards.   It would be a real missed opportunity if the EK's don't have a game dynamic of their own, especially EK's that are communities.   I would argue that EK's are the social fiber of CF.  Otherwise, it is just another fly by night MOBA. 

 

 

EKs will sort of be the social fiber, but in reality the first interactions and social networking that happens will take place in the campaign worlds entirely. These are the meaty interactions, the ones that really matter. The EKs are the bar after the game so to speak (I believe Todd put it that way after clarifying that it wasn't the soccer season) and will certainly contain social aspects... but if the majority of the game play is in the campaigns, that will also be the majority of socializing.

Edited by Adall

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I'm with Adall on this.

 

I don't consider myself "hardcore" whatever that means, but I do not wish to play in a "safe" PVP environment. If I did, there are countless options out there (MOBA, FPS, RTS, CCG, Arena/BGs in mmos, etc).

 

I'm looking forward to the challenges that The Dregs and other rulesets can provide without any premade setup. Tournaments being the exception if they aren't totally gamey and should fill the void you seem to be attempting to. "Hardcore" guilds that don't care about the winnings in the CW aren't going to care about them anymore if they are in the EK. Bragging rights are enough for some folks, not everyone needs a prize.

 

Beyond buffs/perks that impact the CW and possible RL profit, I have no intention of building my EK nor spending a great deal of time in anyone else's. If I'm expected/required to spend a lot of time in the EKs, I'll probably not play.

 

What I like about CF is the design allows for fairly diverse groups to play the same game but not the same way. It would be nice and probably beneficial to have features that mix the crowds, but the more blended and watered down it becomes, the less appealing it will be to me at least.

Edited by allein

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I do completely agree with the no P2W principle and would not ever suggest having the EK's impact the CW in any significant manner.  But the CW can impact the EK.    I actually believe that the EK's can be an immersive game of their own about politics, economy, social building, crafting and entertainment just to name a few.  It could be that EK's give the game more depth to keep players coming back even after defeat in CW..

Edited by Tahru

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I do completely agree with the no P2W principle and would not ever suggest having the EK's impact the CW in any significant manner.    I actually believe that the EK's can be an immersive game of their own about politics, economy, social building, crafting and entertainment just to name a few.  It could be that EK's give the game more depth to keep players coming back even after defeat in CW..

With the ability to toggle PvP and only invite certain people, most of what was mentioned above will certainly be able to exist as it is too.

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I agree, but that is too shallow for an MMO.  That is hardly more than Steam cards.   It would be a real missed opportunity if the EK's don't have a game dynamic of their own, especially EK's that are communities.   I would argue that EK's are the social fiber of CF.  Otherwise, it is just another fly by night MOBA. 

 

I'm pretty sure that many EKs will resemble large towns with lot of activities, PvP events, socializing, trading, crafting, etc.

 

The main problem I see is that after we've acquired things from the store or campaigns and bring them back in EK, they do not matter much because most of what is traded / crafted in the EK isn't allowed to get in CWs, where they would matter, or they have a cosmetic purpose.

 

The step where we use in a meaningful way the items we've collected for months seem to be missing.

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I'm pretty sure that many EKs will resemble large towns with lot of activities, PvP events, socializing, trading, crafting, etc.

 

The main problem I see is that after we've acquired things from the store or campaigns and bring them back in EK, they do not matter much because most of what is traded / crafted in the EK isn't allowed to get in CWs, where they would matter, or they have a cosmetic purpose.

 

The step where we use in a meaningful way the items we've collected for months seem to be missing.

I think the meaningful way will be to use those items in the campaigns to your advantage. You really shouldn't be stockpiling your winnings until you have already won. After that, real money transactions or general trade for those who want to make pretty EK worlds will be a source of wealth generation in game or out of game for the winners of the campaign who don't care to create their own worlds. Also guilds will be able to take advantage to help bolster recruitment (hey look, we won a bunch of campaigns and have a stellar EK now, come play with us if you can pass our massive vetting process).

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I think the meaningful way will be to use those items in the campaigns to your advantage. You really shouldn't be stockpiling your winnings until you have already won. After that, real money transactions or general trade for those who want to make pretty EK worlds will be a source of wealth generation in game or out of game for the winners of the campaign who don't care to create their own worlds. Also guilds will be able to take advantage to help bolster recruitment (hey look, we won a bunch of campaigns and have a stellar EK now, come play with us if you can pass our massive vetting process).

 

I also expect most PvP players who want to win campaigns to use their resources rather than embargoing. At the end of the campaign though, I'm pretty sure that the dominating groups will put their stuff in the embargo, especially if they're assured of winning the campaign.

 

Once they've exported the spoil of war in their EK and if they're interested only by the PvP, there's not much to do with it other than putting in storage.

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So I'm still not totally clear on something about EKs: if I take an item from a 0 import CW and sell it in my CW, could the person who bought it bring it into the same CW if they're already locked to the same CW?

 

If I am following you correctly, no.

 

You can sell anything to anyone else inside the same CW, once you are in however... that is it. You don't get to take anything out until you win (or in some cases lose) and you cannot add more items in (all imports will be severely limited as well). Once that happens the item is in the EK, you can sell it or trade it there. If someone wants to bring it into a CW they will have to do so on their first entry into the CW.

 

I hope that makes sense.

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Not everyone has to love EKs.  Personally, I am interesting in building my own kingdom and/or helping to build up a guild kingdom.   One of Crowfall's major selling points for me was the EKs--in Wildstar I pretty much split my time between building a couple of epic (if I do say so myself) plots and bgs. 

 

If people don't like or want to ignore EKs, I guess I would have to ask--so what?  I hate raiding, but I played a ton of WoW.  I played quite a bit of Archeage, but I never once had my own land.  I've "missed out" on many incentives, rewards and accolades because I chose not to participate in major components of several MMOs.  So, if you don't like EKs, put all your resources into winning campaigns, trade resources to crafters for gear upgrades or potentially other options.  Pretty simple, really.  :mellow:


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Well, s

 

If I am following you correctly, no.

 

You can sell anything to anyone else inside the same CW, once you are in however... that is it. You don't get to take anything out until you win (or in some cases lose) and you cannot add more items in (all imports will be severely limited as well). Once that happens the item is in the EK, you can sell it or trade it there. If someone wants to bring it into a CW they will have to do so on their first entry into the CW.

 

I hope that makes sense.

Well, shucks. I hope SOMEBODY plays the import games. Otherwise EKs are just going to be glorified trophy rooms and not mercantile hubs.

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