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Making Eks Matter To Everyone

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This is my thought as well and why I'm holding off on upgrading my KS package.  

 

 

Once everyone realizes that eks don't mean squat, then their cash cow will dwindle.  Once their cash cow dwindles, they will have to make ek's mean something or fold up the game.  It will be their only source of income.  Nobody I know plays a video game for the sake of winning.  At least I never have.

 

They have tied most everything to eks with the ks and presale game packages.  Once people realize the Zero value of this There will be an up roar.

 

I am at this point encouraging everyone in our guild to quit buying until they decide what route the game will be taking. Most EVERYTHING in this game is up in the air and most everything is based on what they can technically do or not do.  We will see how close their vision is to what is actually gonna be released.


Wacka Wacka

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EKs won't probably mean much to several PvP players who will spend 100% of their gaming time in campaigns, but it will most likely be extremely popular among those who enjoy the economic, social, building and crafting games.

 

When I think about Minecraft, Second Life, Sims, EVE Online, etc. I realize how appealing the EKs could be for this audience.

 

Hopefully, those who aren't used to PvP and join Crowfall for the EKs will be tempted to try some campaigns and start enjoying them.

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I am hoping that EKs figure heavily in crafting.  I think that would be a cool, tangible benefit that would still curtail "pay to win" but would give those who pay RL $$ a huge leg up in a real way.

EKs won't probably mean much to several PvP players who will spend 100% of their gaming time in campaigns, but it will most likely be extremely popular among those who enjoy the economic, social, building and crafting games.

 

When I think about Minecraft, Second Life, Sims, EVE Online, etc. I realize how appealing the EKs could be for this audience.

 

Hopefully, those who aren't used to PvP and join Crowfall for the EKs will be tempted to try some campaigns and start enjoying them.


Wacka Wacka

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Ah, interesting discussion...

 

What I'd like to see from EKs:

- Place to merchant/auctionhouse/buy/sell, which may benefit CW depending on ruleset

- Place to craft

- Place to harvest nodes for crafting - debatable on this, forcing to import from CW or buy from others who imported might be more preferable, open to testing this in alpha/beta

- Place to duel each other, would like to see a duel mechanic to do 1v1, 1vX situations for practice in controlled environment and be able to test things out with friends.

- I saw mentioned the idea of buffs carried over from EK to CW, open to this idea but want to see more mechanics of it. Some CW could have ruleset to include the buffs, and would want to see what criteria needed to gain the buff. I could see this as being a benefit for recruitment to guilds with EK that have said buffs but open to this idea.

- I would also like some benefit to being high prestige in EK so that there is some tax function where higher you are in prestige rank the higher % you get, so land plots tax/occupancy/merchant deals done within EK give gold to the prestige ranks. This might be some P2W to an extent but then again you have the CW for the super hardcore who want to be the best without bringing in any advantages to their CW. Where I could see this being interesting is combined with the guild function where tax/rent almost works as member dues and you reap all the benefits from the guild buffs, place to merchant/craft, etc.

- My trophy dollhouse

 

That said, I like variety. I will try the different CW rulesets, I will spend time in EK. I like having choice and variety. If they kept an arena function I would even still queue for that, for variety purposes and if the CW gets too zergy and population imbalance. This will also factor in to see how much lag there will be from large scale battles, this is yet to be seen.

 

Anyway, look forward to the discussion and reading up. I'm late to the game.

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Regarding the OP:

I don't see a need to structure PvP into the EKs.  There is a wide range of campaigns (Player vs Player, Guild vs Guild, God vs God, Faction vs Faction) and there's a huge amount of flexibility when it comes to both import and export rules.  I think every PvP player will be able to find their own preferred playstyle and campaign rules within the CW.

Just because CF is a niche game does not mean it needs to be off balance.  It seems to me that CF is building a tripod of CW, Character, and EK.  It's a pretty strong structure, and it relies on each part having its own unique pros and cons.  The CW adds PvP, resources, and bragging rights to the game.  The Character adds permanent progression, individuality, and personal challenge.  The EK adds social interaction, a sense of permanence, and a long term base for expanding power.  Players can participate in the parts of the game that they enjoy in the amount that they like. 

Without the other 2 parts the CW runs dangerously close to making the game a MOBA. All 3 are needed to make a balanced game.  Each aspect of the game brings pros and cons to the table and it's only when the 3 are combined that the game has some balance and stability. 

So - the EK needs to be designed as its own separate entity.  Making it more of a PvP environment may bring a few more players to the EK than before but it messes with the balance of the game. If folks want to bring in PvP that's great but they can do so on their own already without shifting the permanent game structure.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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Regarding the OP:

I don't see a need to structure PvP into the EKs.  There is a wide range of campaigns (Player vs Player, Guild vs Guild, God vs God, Faction vs Faction) and there's a huge amount of flexibility when it comes to both import and export rules.  I think every PvP player will be able to find their own preferred playstyle and campaign rules within the CW.

Just because CF is a niche game does not mean it needs to be off balance.  It seems to me that CF is building a tripod of CW, Character, and EK.  It's a pretty strong structure, and it relies on each part having its own unique pros and cons.  The CW adds PvP, resources, and bragging rights to the game.  The Character adds permanent progression, individuality, and personal challenge.  The EK adds social interaction, a sense of permanence, and a long term base for expanding power.  Players can participate in the parts of the game that they enjoy in the amount that they like. 

Without the other 2 parts the CW runs dangerously close to making the game a MOBA. All 3 are needed to make a balanced game.  Each aspect of the game brings pros and cons to the table and it's only when the 3 are combined that the game has some balance and stability. 

So - the EK needs to be designed as its own separate entity.  Making it more of a PvP environment may bring a few more players to the EK than before but it messes with the balance of the game. If folks want to bring in PvP that's great but they can do so on their own already without shifting the permanent game structure.

Right smh. Make the eks a separate entity may give you what you want what yiuyou have always wanted a place to remove yourself from the pvp element but it does little for the cohesiveness of the community. This topic was about making them matter to everyone inclusively not how to ensure the community is kept in separate world's. 2 games in one is what you seem to want. Perhaps that is what you will get. Sadly.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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This is what I'm afraid of too.

I've mentioned housing in Wildstar before.  It was fun for a lot of people but it didn't promote any kind of community.  Other than a tiny group of people who wanted to see what other people had built, nobody visited anyone else's housing.
 

Right smh. Make the eks a separate entity may give you what you want what yiuyou have always wanted a place to remove yourself from the pvp element but it does little for the cohesiveness of the community. This topic was about making them matter to everyone inclusively not how to ensure the community is kept in separate world's. 2 games in one is what you seem to want. Perhaps that is what you will get. Sadly.


Wacka Wacka

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This is what I'm afraid of too.

 

I've mentioned housing in Wildstar before.  It was fun for a lot of people but it didn't promote any kind of community.  Other than a tiny group of people who wanted to see what other people had built, nobody visited anyone else's housing.

 

The game's community is already quite fragmented by the four rulesets.  The EKs could be the biggest culprit of all, by introducing a bunch of people to the game who may ultimately complain and leave...but not without damaging the game.  I'd love to see some more developer comments about not fracturing the CF community into sub-communities but rather ideas they have about cohering into a gaming community with passion.  

 

I'm worried that developers think that too much of the MOBA match mentality will translate to MMOs with the Campaign Worlds; they are of course free to take the risk, I'm just not sold that it will payoff.  To me, the joy of the MMO is in the (semi) permanence; I want the universe to have history.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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This is what I'm afraid of too.

 

I've mentioned housing in Wildstar before.  It was fun for a lot of people but it didn't promote any kind of community.  Other than a tiny group of people who wanted to see what other people had built, nobody visited anyone else's housing.

 

 

Wildstar housing didn't really bring people together because it was single player instance housing. This isn't the case with the EK, and I feel too many people think of the EK this way. The Eternal Kingdoms are player created worlds with the purpose of making communities. You can certainly treat your personal EK like single instance housing, and I think many players will, because they won't be interested in world building for the larger community, but that's definitely not what they are limited too!

 

The game's community is already quite fragmented by the four rulesets.  The EKs could be the biggest culprit of all, by introducing a bunch of people to the game who may ultimately complain and leave...but not without damaging the game.  I'd love to see some more developer comments about not fracturing the CF community into sub-communities but rather ideas they have about cohering into a gaming community with passion.  

 

I'm worried that developers think that too much of the MOBA match mentality will translate to MMOs with the Campaign Worlds; they are of course free to take the risk, I'm just not sold that it will payoff.  To me, the joy of the MMO is in the (semi) permanence; I want the universe to have history.

 

I may be alone in this opinion, but I just don't see this as a big problem as a lot of people are making it out to be. Most people who weren't interested in any PvP, probably weren't looking at crowfall anyways. Those who did want to play EK only and weren't interested in pvp are probably very few now or left once they realized the EK is very campaign dependent to get anything done. And because of that, most large EKs will likely be ran by guilds who have been in and out of campaigns than be single players who haven't done any. Like Ori mentioned, the EKs exist for community building and permanence. There is nothing else to do in the Eteneral Kingdoms, so I'm not seeing where people are concerned about people staying in them. If anything, I very much see most people only going to the EKs to shop then back to the campaigns.

Edited by purplestreak

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I may be alone in this opinion, but I just don't see this as a big problem as a lot of people are making it out to be. Most people who weren't interested in any PvP, probably weren't looking at crowfall anyways. Those who did want to play EK only and weren't interested in pvp are probably very few now or left once they realized the EK is very campaign dependent to get anything done. And because of that, most large EKs will likely be ran by guilds who have been in and out of campaigns than be single players who haven't done any. Like Ori mentioned, the EKs exist for community building and permanence. There is nothing else to do in the Eteneral Kingdoms, so I'm not seeing where people are concerned about people staying in them. If anything, I very much see most people only going to the EKs to shop then back to the campaigns.

 

But, this is a major problem.  If the EKs are essentially meaningless, so people who play the 'actual' game (CWs) don't care about them, then why would I participate in the CW embargo and win mechanics?  The less meaningful the EK, the less incentive to win CWs; as others have stated, unlike MOBAs and ESports, just winning for bragging rights is not leveraging the biggest advantage that MMOs have over other genres: permanence and history.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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But, this is a major problem.  If the EKs are essentially meaningless, so people who play the 'actual' game (CWs) don't care about them, then why would I participate in the CW embargo and win mechanics?  The less meaningful the EK, the less incentive to win CWs; as others have stated, unlike MOBAs and ESports, just winning for bragging rights is not leveraging the biggest advantage that MMOs have over other genres: permanence and history.

 

There will be people and guilds who will care about both is my point, even if the EK doesn't have any affect on the campaigns, and may seem meaningless to a lot. The incentive for CW-only type players to continue playing is handled by the tournament system, and why I feel EKs shouldn't need anymore than what they got.

Edited by purplestreak

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I think that if you want to build a game with a cohesive community then you need to allow the players to be a part of the community in the ways that work best for them.  We're not all the same player playing for the same reasons.

Some folks find community in PvP and the teamwork and skills needed to succeed in there.  The sense of danger and risk mixed with the excitement of battle and the attainment of victory creates a sense of comraderie and fulfillment found nowhere else.   Even losing in PvP can tighten connections as people pull together and plot their revenge.

Some folks find community in the economy and trade interactions of a game.  Providing goods or bartering for supplies creates connections and long term relationships that last because they're based on universal principles of supply and demand.   Sweating over crafting outputs and daring endless horrors in dangerous worlds to get mats becomes addicting and a harvesting group can be as close as a PvP group over time.

Some even find community in the boards for a game (Landroval's coffee clutch on the LOTRO boards comes to mind).  They find connection in the social aspect and often can find great players to hang with ingame.  Some folks use RP to connect - everyone has their own way of finding their spot in a community.

Because CF is a sandbox and it seems that the devs are making choices that encourage interaction (no AH, survival often means having someone at your back) I doubt very much that the EK's will create a fragmented community if they're treated as part of the game balance.  Rather I think that players will have the option to fit into the community in ways that support them being involved, integrated members because they love what they're doing ingame.



 


pixS8Wt.jpg


The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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We're not all the same player playing for the same reasons.

 

That's great. But this game is intended for specific kinds of player, not all kinds of player. So if the game is not intended for a certain kind of player, then the ways of being part of the community that are specific to that kind of player are irrelevant, right? In fact, we could go so far as to say that putting special effort into the game specifically to accommodate a kind of player that the game is not being built for is bad business, right?

 

How is this hard?


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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Game is meant for pvpers and crafters of all different shapes and sizes.... some people seem to think the game has to be focused only on their preferential playstyle... that simply isn't the case...

 

The EK may not matter as much directly to someone playing zero import dregs campaigns 24-7.... but it matters to them indirectly because it helps for other bands and helps keep the game more populated and making money. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Wildstar housing didn't really bring people together because it was single player instance housing. This isn't the case with the EK, and I feel too many people think of the EK this way. The Eternal Kingdoms are player created worlds with the purpose of making communities. You can certainly treat your personal EK like single instance housing, and I think many players will, because they won't be interested in world building for the larger community, but that's definitely not what they are limited too!

 

 

I may be alone in this opinion, but I just don't see this as a big problem as a lot of people are making it out to be. Most people who weren't interested in any PvP, probably weren't looking at crowfall anyways. Those who did want to play EK only and weren't interested in pvp are probably very few now or left once they realized the EK is very campaign dependent to get anything done. And because of that, most large EKs will likely be ran by guilds who have been in and out of campaigns than be single players who haven't done any. Like Ori mentioned, the EKs exist for community building and permanence. There is nothing else to do in the Eteneral Kingdoms, so I'm not seeing where people are concerned about people staying in them. If anything, I very much see most people only going to the EKs to shop then back to the campaigns.

Certainly not alone in your thinking. I've said it before numerous times now but the EK are what us the players make them to be. We shouldn't need the Dev to hold our hands and force us to use EKs and build community's. We'll already have what we need to do so, if we chose. But yeah most I would think are here for the PvP and them among those we'll see several sects based off of how much they use EKs or how much time and focus they spend in certain rulesets etc. That's the design of the game IMO and nothing that needs to be fixed or forced or hand held.

Edited by pang

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That's great. But this game is intended for specific kinds of player, not all kinds of player. So if the game is not intended for a certain kind of player, then the ways of being part of the community that are specific to that kind of player are irrelevant, right? In fact, we could go so far as to say that putting special effort into the game specifically to accommodate a kind of player that the game is not being built for is bad business, right?

 

How is this hard?

 

"We're not all the same player playing for the same reasons" does not mean "make the game accommodate a kind of player that the game is not being built for".

 

Because there are EKs in CF the game is being built for folks that like a game with EK kinda stuff in it.  Because the EKs have social aspects to them the game is being built for folks that like games with social kinda stuff in them. 

 

No one is forcing the devs to create a game outside of their vision (as if anyone could) - rather most folks are doing their best to find a way to keep their love for the game alive and find what CF has that works for them.   It's up to everyone to accept that EKs are part of the vision and deal with it. 

 

 


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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"We're not all the same player playing for the same reasons" does not mean "make the game accommodate a kind of player that the game is not being built for".

Because there are EKs in CF the game is being built for folks that like a game with EK kinda stuff in it.  Because the EKs have social aspects to them the game is being built for folks that like games with social kinda stuff in them. 

No one is forcing the devs to create a game outside of their vision (as if anyone could) - rather most folks are doing their best to find a way to keep their love for the game alive and find what CF has that works for them.   It's up to everyone to accept that EKs are part of the vision and deal with it.

 

Nope. I disagree. The game is not being built specifically for its social aspects. Not sure where and how that premise was ever arrived at. At least it wasn't until Ace realized how many squishy types were here and how many $$$$ they would spend to avoid the cw's. Someone needs to post jtc's so emotional post here (I am on my phone). Didn't sound to me like he was righting a wrong by wanting ppl to play house. Sounded like he was aiming to make a certain with certain attributes the right way Never heard mention back then of different games and separating community. But whatever makes the most money I guess.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Nope. I disagree. The game is not being built specifically for its social aspects. Not sure where and how that premise was ever arrived at.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm saying the game is being built specifically for its social aspects?

 

EKs are part of the game.  Per the FAQs -

 

"We fully expect that some players will prefer to spend the vast majority of their time participating in the campaign worlds, and we intend to let them do so without maintaining a kingdom. Other players (those who want to socialize, and participate in the economy game) may spend most of their time in the Eternal Kingdoms.   

As they say: Different strokes for different folks."

 

I'm not saying that the game is being built specifically for its social aspects.  I'm saying that the EKs are a part of the game balance and they've been clearly defined as a place where people will socialize.  There's nothing about that that should scare anyone or make folks think that the EKs are taking over.  (Attack of the EKs!  Son of EK!  EK vs. Godzilla!).

 

It's a big game and there's plenty of space for everyone that wants to play to play the way they'd like to.


pixS8Wt.jpg


The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm saying the game is being built specifically for its social aspects?

 

EKs are part of the game.  Per the FAQs -

 

"We fully expect that some players will prefer to spend the vast majority of their time participating in the campaign worlds, and we intend to let them do so without maintaining a kingdom. Other players (those who want to socialize, and participate in the economy game) may spend most of their time in the Eternal Kingdoms.   

As they say: Different strokes for different folks."

 

I'm not saying that the game is being built specifically for its social aspects.  I'm saying that the EKs are a part of the game balance and they've been clearly defined as a place where people will socialize.  There's nothing about that that should scare anyone or make folks think that the EKs are taking over.  (Attack of the EKs!  Son of EK!  EK vs. Godzilla!).

 

It's a big game and there's plenty of space for everyone that wants to play to play the way they'd like to.

 (Attack of the EKs!  Son of EK!  EK vs. Godzilla!).

 

Some things never change.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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