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Friendly Fire Needs To Be Universal


hamopeche
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I think that's more just group coordination though... there are ways to position and land AoE's without hitting your teammates....

 

Very much true. But you'd be wasting more time, even if it's .5 seconds, positioning the AoE. Or giving the voice command to "move it" and the team mate reacting. And we all know that even that .5 second distraction could be the difference between winning and losing in a PvP setting. Even worse would be you spending the extra time, or maybe it's even instinctual to place the AoE, and missing.  

 

Again, you have a good point. Group coordination is key. Practicing group awareness, and working on chemistry with team mates will go a lot further. 

 

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I think one of the limitations of thinking people are suffering from, when considering the lack of Friendly Immunity, is that they're caught up in their traditional, outdated focus-fire mindset. They can't see how you could have a team of 8 or 47 people all attacking the same target if Friendly Immunity isn't turned on.

 

Good! Why the hell should you be able to do that? That's dumb. Super dumb. Like, why the hell is there a game that allows that at all?

 

Not creating the crutch of Friendly Immunity forces a more natural battle to emerge. Rather than primary tanks, we have combat interaction spread across many pairings of small numbers of participants. The use of terrain to provide protection for non-tanks becomes critical. Continual movement and repositioning of all participants becomes essential. Tactics for shielding yourself from enemy ranged fire by positioning your enemy tanks emerge. Everything about combat becomes far more dynamic and fluid.

 

If you try to figure out how the lack of Friendly Immunity will work in the expectations of combat you're locked into, you'll come up angsty. If, instead, you reimagine how battle will unfold without the crutch of Friendly Immunity imposing perverse incentives on behavior, you'll realize there's a whole world of gameplay you have never considered, and you'll be excited to see it.

I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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Very much true. But you'd be wasting more time, even if it's .5 seconds, positioning the AoE. Or giving the voice command to "move it" and the team mate reacting. And we all know that even that .5 second distraction could be the difference between winning and losing in a PvP setting. Even worse would be you spending the extra time, or maybe it's even instinctual to place the AoE, and missing.  

 

Again, you have a good point. Group coordination is key. Practicing group awareness, and working on chemistry with team mates will go a lot further. 

Yea that is the whole point of friendly fire though... changing things that usually require much less thought, and making people think about more variables when using an ability...  It changes the way engagements are fought.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Yea that is the whole point of friendly fire though... changing things that usually require much less thought, and making people think about more variables when using an ability...  It changes the way engagements are fought.

 

Which is why I said it separates the good players from the best players. :D

 

Haha I think you're trying to make an argument or a debate over an agreement.

 

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If I decide to go Assassin I fully expect to get bombarded by an AOE noob fest at times forcing me to run out of the battle.  The good news is I can go stab them in the back giving them some friendly incentive to pay attention and not just AOE the crap out of all fights.

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Which is why I said it separates the good players from the best players. :D

 

Haha I think you're trying to make an argument or a debate over an agreement.

Not at all... I'm just clarifying that classifying it as "wasting time" isn't really accurate because it isn't wasting time, it's more changing the tactics....

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Thought I heard them say something about possible debuffs for friendly fire, I could be wrong here.  There solution could be in some of the CWs to add a stacking debuff to players doing friendly fire that reduces damage out put to all players, the person doing the friendly fire then because useless for a period of time.  This may solve concerns people have of friendly fire or add more fire to it.  Who knows just yet.

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Just as long as there's a decent amount of non friendly fire campaigns I'll be happy. You guys can have all the fun you want lagging around getting destroyed by server side prediction and lag compensation.

 

Hooray for different campaign rule sets!

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Just as long as there's a decent amount of non friendly fire campaigns I'll be happy. You guys can have all the fun you want lagging around getting destroyed by server side prediction and lag compensation.

 

Hooray for different campaign rule sets!

Agreed, their design is really good for covering many different pvp preferences.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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You don't think that there is a slight handicap for those who have to time their attacks in hopes to not hit a team mate, versus say those that can just rapid fire to their hearts content?

 

I mean, lets be honest. If you and I were say a 2 person gank squad right? And we know each others play styles, we've practiced at keep the enemy between us, we've done everything right. The ultimate variable is the target. 

 

That target can juke, dodge, roll, do any number of things that we can only try to predict. Point being, they aren't standing still. And if they happened to become aware of the ranged enemy. They double their efforts right? Or perhaps they are smart and keep counter maneuvering to gain better position and lessen the threat of the ranged enemy. This changes that ranged characters tactic drastically. Yes, ranged character can join in the melee, or perhaps seek a better position. All of which "wastes time", so to speak, compared to those that don't need to worry about friendly fire right?

 

Of course the delay of the ranged character isn't the only time sink in PvP. And I'm certainly not saying that it's so much of a waste of time that it would break gameplay. And I don't think it's actually a "waste of time" anyway. It's just time spent NOT dealing damage. :D

 

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You don't think that there is a slight handicap for those who have to time their attacks in hopes to not hit a team mate, versus say those that can just rapid fire to their hearts content?

 

Everyone has to watch their attacks... not only for the sake of avoiding damaging teammates, but also to avoid their teammates damaging them.  If my swings do 100 damage, and a backline fire mage has a 10000 damage nuke, it would be pretty dumb of me not to position in a way that gives him windows of opportunity to land his spells. 

 

I mean, lets be honest. If you and I were say a 2 person gank squad right? And we know each others play styles, we've practiced at keep the enemy between us, we've done everything right. The ultimate variable is the target. 

 

That target can juke, dodge, roll, do any number of things that we can only try to predict. Point being, they aren't standing still. And if they happened to become aware of the ranged enemy. They double their efforts right? Or perhaps they are smart and keep counter maneuvering to gain better position and lessen the threat of the ranged enemy. This changes that ranged characters tactic drastically. Yes, ranged character can join in the melee, or perhaps seek a better position. All of which "wastes time", so to speak, compared to those that don't need to worry about friendly fire right?

 

It's not just a ranged characters job to find good shots, it's also his melee teammate's job to make sure to give him opportunities to do so. 

 

Of course the delay of the ranged character isn't the only time sink in PvP. And I'm certainly not saying that it's so much of a waste of time that it would break gameplay. And I don't think it's actually a "waste of time" anyway. It's just time spent NOT dealing damage. :D

 

It's definitely not a waste of time, it's just time people must spend adjusting to the variables to make the correct play. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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it really all just boils down to how effective are the tools ace is using.

 

i mean, simplistically...because i don't speak code...

but if

 

aoe of fiery doom

type: AOE

damage radius: 10

splash effect: yes

spash from center: 40% redux

group damage: yes/no

guild damage: yes/no

faction damage: yes/no

 

if they can, for a given server toggle the group/guild/faction values with just a couple clicks (ie. adjust the entire group of 'aoe' damage variables at the same time) the could without much issue adjust values in without much issue. now if thhey are having to go in and adjust each and every ability individually...oh the horror.

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I can't fathom the mindset that even considers granularities of Friendly Immunity. Guild-only immunity? WAT?!?

 

Absolutely ZERO Friendly Immunity. For all rulesets.

 

Down with bukkombat.

I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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I can't fathom the mindset that even considers granularities of Friendly Immunity. Guild-only immunity? WAT?!?

 

Absolutely ZERO Friendly Immunity. For all rulesets.

 

Down with bukkombat.

 

well I can see friendly immunity go for the "easier" rulessets like God's Reach, etc. Maybe some CW's with and some without FF? But the closer you are to the hunger the harder it should be. 

 

This would cater both the people who doesn't want FF and those who want it. And if you go deeper into the abyss you should expect that everything is an obstacle. 

Edited by Thyr

You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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uhhh hamo...

 

i think the concept of friendly fire is already universal

 

hth

 

also i am sorry if this has been covered but your op had too many words in it so

 

there u go

Edited by Lastgirl~

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
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also i am sorry if this has been covered but your op had too many words in it so

You're a Goon, right? So don't you have Adderall for that?

I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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You're a Goon, right? So don't you have Adderall for that?

 

adderall would make friendly fire worser imo

 

so no, work with me here

 

lets brainstorm this up a bit more cmon

 

back to square 1, this is going nowhere

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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... When you remove swarm combat by turning on friendly fire†, you have to change the relative balance of offense and defense to achieve a desired time of battle. If both conditions exist in different rulesets, ACE will constantly have to adjust balance, and one or both of two things will be true:

  • One or both ruleset conditions will be totally out-of-whack; or
  • Abilities will have different behaviors in each condition.

 

I like the idea of having friendly fire enabled in every campaign, but not every player can stand this mechanic and I think that forcing people, even in the safer tri-faction campaigns, to get hit or killed regularly by their allies is not the best way to retain players.  :P

 

So the solution imo can't be worldwide friendly fire, even if this would surely make safer worlds more interesting for the PvP crowd.

 

I believe that some of the assumptions in the OP may be unfounded : I think that it wouldn't be much of a problem if ACE had to tweak numbers individually for each new CW and that having a standard value for all the worlds wouldn't be dramatic either : maybe that the TTK would decrease/increase, or maybe AOE would be more or less effective, but as it applies to every player of a campaign, it doesn't really advantage certain groups. Potentially it would advantage certain archetypes or tactics and the testers will be able to figure that soon enough during alphas/betas.  :)

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I think FF should be mandatory in The Shadow and Dregs CWs.  It's where it will matter the most, have the biggest impact, and affect the zergs out there in horrible imploding ways.

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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