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FrostSword

What Archetype Will You Be As A Crafter?

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Apparently this thread is finding its way to the surface again. This thread was started a while back, and we have learned a lot more since then. I have updated the original post to reflect some of these new changes. With what we know, which archetypes you chose as a crafter still have an influence, but now vessel stats too could effect the outcomes. And by facing a choice of crafting over the other general skills (or balancing crafting with 1 or both of the others. I dub this the "field crafter"; you'd be able to craft essentials but would probably not be the one to go to for the most durable or high quality gear like the "artisans").

 

I think it is still interesting, even with how little we know of the crafting system, what people are thinking of doing and how they might pull it off. So, share your thoughts, if you are so inclined.


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Theorycrafting is a lot of the reason I'm still sitting on the forums every day but, I think I've got a good idea of what I'll end up with at launch. I won't go into details of my planned starting build because I don't want to popularize it but, it's definitely a good mix of CW and EK crafting with a big focus on self sufficiency.

 

I can't wait for more info so I can tweak my build.

 

I'm also curious if generic crafting stats increases like crafting speed will apply to things in the exploration tree such as harvesting or if hey never overlap.

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Is it just me or are pure combat characters going to be 300% more effective at combat than pure crafters are at crafting?

Crafting/gathering is all general skill training which can be done only one at a time

But a VIP combat guy can train 1 general combat skill and 3 archetype combat skills at a time

4 vs 1?

I do understand this concern, and I share it to a degree. The comparison is between the option to focus on crafting and the optional focus on combat. At the moment, the system does seem HEAVILY skewed towards combat. But, a focus on crafting is supposed to be an option, according to ACE. So... Maybe a VIP account should get 2 general skills and 2 archetype skills to train at once? Or maybe crafting skills should be separated from general combat skills in some manner?

 

I can understand the game preventing you from foregoing combat progression for crafting progression (as the context of the game kind of makes everyone at least a partial combatant), but it's somewhat strange that you have the option to boost your combat traaining by 300% and your crafting training by 0%.


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Maybe i'm failing the topic a bit, but wouldn't it be important to take into account the relationship both playstiles have? Even if the combat archetype hast his skills maxed out, without a good crafter who supplies him with equipement, he stills lacks his effectivity (not saying he is useless) and the crafter can actually boost the battlepower of their team tenfold, equipping 10 strong warroirs with good items (so you could say a crafter is more effective as a combat archetype). Also, they will get a lot of ressources from different combat archetypes who want them to craft equipement and helping you max your skills?

 

Just a thought aside, maybe it is made this way to set a certain pace in the game progression, like forcing people to play with low/bad equipemt and trying to avoid having the best equips two month after the release. Maybe it's set like this to make a full skilled crafter all the much more worth to have on your side because it's so hard to skill nobody goes for it except those who see the crafting role as their most favorite playstile.

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Maybe i'm failing the topic a bit, but wouldn't it be important to take into account the relationship both playstiles have? Even if the combat archetype hast his skills maxed out, without a good crafter who supplies him with equipement, he stills lacks his effectivity (not saying he is useless) and the crafter can actually boost the battlepower of their team tenfold, equipping 10 strong warroirs with good items (so you could say a crafter is more effective as a combat archetype). Also, they will get a lot of ressources from different combat archetypes who want them to craft equipement and helping you max your skills?

 

Just a thought aside, maybe it is made this way to set a certain pace in the game progression, like forcing people to play with low/bad equipemt and trying to avoid having the best equips two month after the release. Maybe it's set like this to make a full skilled crafter all the much more worth to have on your side because it's so hard to skill nobody goes for it except those who see the crafting role as their most favorite playstile.

Players can spec into crafting after finishing their archetype training and be self sufficient but, you have to keep in mind the time that goes into training. They've hinted at the game having so many skills that it would be impossible to train them all (They said something like 15 years to max all skills). Also, by the time you finish training your archetype, assuming you don't want to train up another one it will still take you a considerable amount of time to reach the level of proficiency needed to have the best gear. Then you also have to take into account that all of your gear might not come from the same crafting profession.

 

Since all gear in the game (other than very rare natural finds) is crafted, you will NEEEEED a crafter. In fact you'll probably need at least one crafter of every profession on your team.

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I am thinking that a Duelist or a Forgemaster will be my character of choice. I am leaning towards Forgemaster but I would like to get some game time in or actual information on what will be available before I decide


Dedicated Crafter.

 

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I kind of hope every archetype brings something unique to the crafting table, even if some bring a bigger something than others. Of course, now that vessels are crafted and switchable, I guess that doesn't have as much of an impact.


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1. Druid will be my main probably - I love heals and would be at least a bit useful in combat with it, while still being a crafter.

2. Assassin if it will be possible to both explore and craft.

3. Probably Forgemaster as the third option, in case he has any cool skills. Or someone else, I will see when they are revealed :)

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I kind of hope every archetype brings something unique to the crafting table, even if some bring a bigger something than others. Of course, now that vessels are crafted and switchable, I guess that doesn't have as much of an impact.

 

I have to disagree... make an archetype a "better" crafter than another, then all players primarily interested in crafting will feel forced into that archetype.  Even if you say, "Forgemasters are better at making armor, Knights are better at weapons..." etc., you run into a similar problem. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I have to disagree... make an archetype a "better" crafter than another, then all players primarily interested in crafting will feel forced into that archetype.  Even if you say, "Forgemasters are better at making armor, Knights are better at weapons..." etc., you run into a similar problem. 

 

Why would you run into a similar problem? Or why would that be bad for the game?

If all you want to do is be crafting focused, you can play your favorite archetype and be the best at crafting something.

If you want to craft the best weapons, you can select the vessel which can do that.

 

The only "problem" you can run into is if you want to play archetype 'A' while crafting something for which the best is 'B', but I personally think it should be not a problem. You can either accept the fact that you'll be not the best crafter at that item or you will play an archetype you don't really like.

On the other hand if everyone can do the best crafting for everything, why would a crafter even need to switch vessels?

For me that's the same as a Legionnaire scouting stealthed with the same efficiency as an assassin. You can stealth as a Legio (afaik runes have no archetype-restrictions) but you'll be worse than a specialist.

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You can either accept the fact that you'll be not the best crafter at that item or you will play an archetype you don't really like.

 

How is this fun? Why even have this in the game unless it is unavoidable for some inscrutable reason? 

 

On the other hand if everyone can do the best crafting for everything, why would a crafter even need to switch vessels?

 

Skill trees/time based skill progression will limit what you can craft, or at least what you can craft well.  Remember, crafters will still be an essential part of the campaign world, adding a level complexity to your Archetype choice.  For example, let's say you like to play the Legio in combat, but you consider yourself to primarily a crafter of weapons. What I propose allows you to do that.  What you seem to be proposing potentially makes that a non-option. (EDIT: or requires you to switch archetypes during the campaign, potentially back and forth, which may also be problematic). 

 

It seems like you are equating crafting specialties to role choices (tank, dps, ect.).  It is fine that you like that.  However, I personally think that is unnecessary and restrictive.   

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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You can either accept the fact that you'll be not the best crafter at that item or you will play an archetype you don't really like.

 

How is this fun? Why even have this in the game unless it is unavoidable for some inscrutable reason? 

 

So if you can't be the best it's not fun? You can't enjoy crafting massive amounts of average quality with your favorite archetype? Guilds will need loooooots of "cheap" gear for massive sieges, average quality gear will be needed.

Sorry, but I really can't understand it. If every archetype is the best at crafting something, then I don't see the problem at all.

 

On the other hand if everyone can do the best crafting for everything, why would a crafter even need to switch vessels?

 

Skill trees/time based skill progression will limit what you can craft, or at least what you can craft well.  Remember, crafters will still be an essential part of the campaign world, adding a level complexity to your Archetype choice.  For example, let's say you like to play the Legio in combat, but you consider yourself to primarily a crafter of weapons. What I propose allows you to do that.  What you seem to be proposing potentially makes that a non-option. (EDIT: or requires you to switch archetypes during the campaign, potentially back and forth, which may also be problematic). 

 

It seems like you are equating crafting specialties to role choices (tank, dps, ect.).  It is fine that you like that.  However, I personally think that is unnecessary and restrictive.   

 

You can craft your choice of equipment for the masses with any archetype or you can craft a certain with the highest quality. Both are needed, you just have to find the buyer.

As there are Combat/Exploring/Crafting general skills and archetype-specific other skills, if you want to give crafting the same role as combat and exploring, you will need crafting/exploring skills as archetype specific or everyone can make a hybrid crafter/fighter by selecting crafting in general and boosting archetype skills for combat while not having any penalty compared to "pure crafters" who are doing only crafting.

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You can craft your choice of equipment for the masses with any archetype or you can craft a certain with the highest quality. Both are needed, you just have to find the buyer.

As there are Combat/Exploring/Crafting general skills and archetype-specific other skills, if you want to give crafting the same role as combat and exploring, you will need crafting/exploring skills as archetype specific or everyone can make a hybrid crafter/fighter by selecting crafting in general and boosting archetype skills for combat while not having any penalty compared to "pure crafters" who are doing only crafting.

 

Okay, this I get.  I am not sure I agree completely, but it does make some sense. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Blix actually stated in an interview that they had the idea of making different archetypes better at specific types of crafting that could be balanced through other means. Also, keep in mind that archetypes are fluid now and you don't have to stay in a single vessel forever.

 

To break it down even further though, let's consider not just buffs to skills but, also statistics. It makes sense that a character with high strength would be better building walls than a character with low strength. A character with high dex might be better at cutting gems or carving a bow. It's also a possibility that with the rumors of mastery points that having a high primary stat (regardless of what the stat is) may benefit you in your craft of choice. An archetype with imbalanced stats may be poor in combat but, substantial in crafting.

 

Beyond that, we have disciplines and thralls which may not only effect crafting directly but, may also be effected by the gear that we wear. Say for instance that stamina is part of the equation for crafting. Wearing leather and getting the bonus to stamina regeneration may increase the speed at which you can craft. On the other hand, you may get statistical benefits from having high attack power or finding mixed pieces of armor with more thrall slots.

 

Ultimately, we don't know what kind of crafting system they will provide and judging by recent interviews, we won't be seeing any public testing of crafting for months. The best thing to do is just trust that these guys will nail it.

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