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Some Shadowbane reminiscing...

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http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/8289-rules-of-conduct-for-the-crowfall-forums/

 

 

Pot calling the kettle black around here. Accusing a derail while breaking the code of conduct.

 

 ...The entire thread is full of worthless words about a worthless game. ...

 

In a thread entitled, "Some Shadowbane reminiscing..."  :mellow: 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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You can create any narrative you want, you can see it even in this thread... there are tons of people that are remembering shadowbane incorrectly, but in their mind they have fond memories of the game they perceive to have existed. 

 

You see roleplayers in mmorpgs create all sorts of narratives not built into the game all of the time. 

 

 

Skill is skill, it does not change... people can claim skills related specifically to logistics and politics are special and unique to certain games, but they really aren't... they are just efficiency skill in a different wrapper.  Every competitive game is all about understanding the lay of the land and navigating it properly... when it all boils down every game is like that, the ones that get too focused on the individual wrappers are the ones that have a tough time transferring any skill they may have. 

 

Edit:  On top of it people generally gravitate to wrappers they excel at, but remain incomplete as gamers in general.  So some guy with crappy mechanics may want a game that focuses less on mechanical skill, another guy with crappy decision making may want a game that focuses less on vital decision making... but in the end those are just incomplete gamers... the real skill comes when people are capable of utilizing skill in general at a high level... not just one or two types of skills.

 

Okay--in the CF universe, skills that don't apply won't matter.  Therefore, If you have what it takes in CF, no matter if it is less or more than other games, you will be successful and in this universe you will be "the most talented".  I predict that there will be plenty of twitch experts who will come to CF, get spanked, and then quit ranting about just how hard the combat sucks.  As you say, they can "gravitate to wrappers they excel at."   


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/8289-rules-of-conduct-for-the-crowfall-forums/

 

 

 

Pot calling the kettle black around here. Accusing a derail while breaking the code of conduct.

You are actively trolling this thread. You are a troll. If I were a mod you'd have been warned and then banned if you persisted.

 

I'm extremely comfortable calling a spade a spade on this one.

Edited by coolwaters

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Vietnam on launch was insane. Asians had already overrun the server. Was basically an AOE fest. Agent Orange was OP as custard and they never nerfed it. It was basically NA vs. the Asian zerg guild "Charley". The French tried to take a hold of the server originally but got wiped out.

 

It eventually spilled over onto the Cambodia and Laos servers. Eventually all the NA was pushed off and they baned our R8 called Saigon. Server died after that.

Edited by checkyotrack

You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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You are actively trolling this thread. You are a troll. If I were a mod you'd have been warned and then banned if you persisted.

 

I'm extremely comfortable calling a spade a spade on this one.

 

Feel free to report yourself then. Because if you were a mod,  you'd have warned yourself. And then banned yourself if you persisted.

 

Report yourself and feel extremely comfortable.

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Plenty of great pvp games out there that require exponentially more skill than shadowbane ever did... you should try them out and see how you do!

I can't speak for others, but only for myself.

 

I liked Shadowbane even though it wasn't "complicated" in the mechanical design.  I liked Shadowbane because of the depth of character creation (I have still never seen that kind of depth until CF), and because of the political meta gaming; EvE is the only game that comes close to SB for the meta gaming.

 

Shadowbane was click to run, and tab target.  While those mechanics are not twitchy skill the game world itself involved a deeper skill where only thinking on your toes kept you alive.  I'm not knocking the players that like twitch games like MOBAs or FPS; but that is not the style of combat I need in a game.

 

When I hear the words rotation, I almost immediately shutdown and think great another game where it can be figured out and there is no true progression of the characters.  Shadowbane evolved over time, from mish mash groups, to spec groups.  Some of the best target callers I have ever seen were in Shadowbane, and then again in EvE.

 

I have played Tera, Wildstar, Neverwinter (console), Darkfall & Mortal online; still none of them compare to the rush that I first found in Shadowbane, and then again in EvE.  So while I can agree with you VIGINGNAIL that there are PvP games on the market with better twitch combat, I currently have not found any games on the market that take the kind of skill that chess does.

Edited by Mazon

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It makes you look really silly to everyone who actually played SB back then. I'm starting to doubt you ever played the game. Won't mention a guild. Take impossible positions. poorly made socks on every rational post.

Actually, isn't that the most SB thing about him? :)


CF_Van.png

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Okay--in the CF universe, skills that don't apply won't matter.  Therefore, If you have what it takes in CF, no matter if it is less or more than other games, you will be successful and in this universe you will be "the most talented".  I predict that there will be plenty of twitch experts who will come to CF, get spanked, and then quit ranting about just how hard the combat sucks.  As you say, they can "gravitate to wrappers they excel at."   

Skills actually always matter though... it's just that most people don't know how to translate certain skills into different environments... Twitch experts have a better shot of excelling because you can teach decision making to a degree, you can't really teach people with really crappy mechanical skill to ever get decent in that regard.

 

I can't speak for others, but only for myself.

 

I liked Shadowbane even though it wasn't "complicated" in the mechanical design.  I liked Shadowbane because of the depth of character creation (I have still never seen that kind of depth until CF), and because of the political meta gaming; EvE is the only game that comes close to SB for the meta gaming.

 

Not really true... esports has plenty of political gaming, with much larger stakes, RL careers and money.  Shadowbane had some great ideas... they weren't executed well in client.

 

Shadowbane was click to run, and tab target.  While those mechanics are not twitchy skill the game world itself involved a deeper skill where only thinking on your toes kept you alive.  I'm not knocking the players that like twitch games like MOBAs or FPS; but that is not the style of combat I need in a game.

 

Shadowbane didn't involve much thinking on your toes... it would be like playing chess vs a 4 year old with 36hours allotted to each player. 

 

When I hear the words rotation, I almost immediately shutdown and think great another game where it can be figured out and there is no true progression of the characters.  Shadowbane evolved over time, from mish mash groups, to spec groups.  Some of the best target callers I have ever seen were in Shadowbane, and then again in EvE.

 

Target calling in shadowbane didn't take much skill at all... It's akin to normal difficulty raiding in a PvE theme park mmo.

 

I have played Tera, Wildstar, Neverwinter (console), Darkfall & Mortal online; still none of them compare to the rush that I first found in Shadowbane, and then again in EvE.  So while I can agree with you VIGINGNAIL that there are PvP games on the market with better twitch combat, I currently have not found any games on the market that take the kind of skill that chess does.

 

They don't compare because shadowbane and eve were games you played before those games... you always remember your early games more fondly...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Actually, isn't that the most SB thing about him? :)

Hey vandarr!  Welcome back to the thread... would you like to apologize for making silly claims about shadowbane and when the servers were most populated?  Or are you one of those dudes that can't really admit when he is dead wrong? 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It's a slow burn but I've pretty much been dismantling every wannabe in this thread.  You saw vandarr freak out and irrationally claim the game wasn't at its most populated around launch.

Um... no. I didn't freak out - and I didn't irrationally claim anything. I was thinking I saw a chart years ago referring to a minor bump in subscriptions more than 3 months after live, and I probably have that still on my old hard drive from several machines ago. However, I really don't care to debate the point, and my memory could certainly be incorrect, so as someone who is anal about numbers, I will retract the statement.

 

Please do note, however, that the two folks who posted in disagreement - Coolwaters and Phylor, know me pretty well. They've earned the right to be trusted in my book, and as such, make it easy for me to simply rely on their word.


CF_Van.png

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Um... no. I didn't freak out - and I didn't irrationally claim anything. I was thinking I saw a chart years ago referring to a minor bump in subscriptions more than 3 months after live, and I probably have that still on my old hard drive from several machines ago. However, I really don't care to debate the point, and my memory could certainly be incorrect, so as someone who is anal about numbers, I will retract the statement.

 

Please do note, however, that the two folks who posted in disagreement - Coolwaters and Phylor, know me pretty well. They've earned the right to be trusted in my book, and as such, make it easy for me to simply rely on their word.

Yea but you know what's funny about all of that?  You were soooo convinced you were right, even though you were completely wrong... See as someone that sits at the table of champions, I can't stand being wrong, I make sure to always know what I am talking about... but you seem eager to just blurt out things that are incorrect, and then nonchalantly shrug it off when you realize how incorrect it was.  That's not a perfectionist mentality, that's not the type of mentality that will ever even come close to the table of champions.  I myself don't need to look at a chart, I can just call on actual experience, having been there when everyone quit the game and many servers became ghost towns... The game lost much more than half of its playerbase.  And never really came close to recovering.

 

This happens all of the time with people that weren't dominant in shadowbane when it mattered though... they just really think they know how things were, and they just really don't.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Hey vandarr!  Welcome back to the thread... would you like to apologize for making silly claims about shadowbane and when the servers were most populated?  Or are you one of those dudes that can't really admit when he is dead wrong? 

You mean am I your long lost twin? No, I can admit when I'm wrong, and as a married man, I often admit it even when I'm not!

 

By the way, as I was at my daughter's dance recital tonight, I realized it had bearing on this thread. Claiming you were the best in the first 60 days of SB and were therefore better than everyone who continued to play is akin to the best 3 year old tap dancer declaring victory and quitting, then claiming a decade later she is better than the teenagers who originally started with her yet continued to dance.


CF_Van.png

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Yea but you know what's funny about all of that?  You were soooo convinced you were right, even though you were completely wrong... See as someone that sits at the table of champions, I can't stand being wrong, I make sure to always know what I am talking about... but you seem eager to just blurt out things that are incorrect, and then nonchalantly shrug it off when you realize how incorrect it was.  That's not a perfectionist mentality, that's not the type of mentality that will ever even come close to the table of champions.

 

This happens all of the time with people that weren't dominant in shadowbane when it mattered though... they just really think they know how things were, and they just really don't.

Quick - someone note that VN believes I don't care about numbers, and I never, ever have data to back up my claims.

 

Have you even read my posts?That right there shows how little you know about SB.  :P


CF_Van.png

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You mean am I your long lost twin? No, I can admit when I'm wrong, and as a married man, I often admit it even when I'm not!

 

By the way, as I was at my daughter's dance recital tonight, I realized it had bearing on this thread. Claiming you were the best in the first 60 days of SB and were therefore better than everyone who continued to play is akin to the best 3 year old tap dancer declaring victory and quitting, then claiming a decade later she is better than the teenagers who originally started with her yet continued to dance.

If the best 3 year old tap dancer was completely dominant and then the art of tap dancing completely died out after she quit then yes it would be a pretty good analogy...

 

Cause you know, shadowbane pretty much died when all the good players left after all the early issues.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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If the best 3 year old tap dancer was completely dominant and then the art of tap dancing completely died out after she quit then yes it would be a pretty good analogy...

 

Cause you know, shadowbane pretty much died when all the good players left after all the early issues.

Ah, but said 3 year old also decided she was also better than any of the other dance classes - Jazz, Ballet, etc., and a decade later, not only proclaims herself the best dancer, but also unequivocally states that anyone who took a dance class since she quit clearly sucks at dancing, otherwise they wouldn't have continued taking classes.

 

Bottom line - you can't objectively prove your assertions with factual data, which makes your crowing over my not doing the same over subscription numbers earlier in this very thread the very definition of irony.


CF_Van.png

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Ah, but said 3 year old also decided she was also better than any of the other dance classes - Jazz, Ballet, etc., and a decade later, not only proclaims herself the best dancer, but also unequivocally states that anyone who took a dance class since she quit clearly sucks at dancing, otherwise they wouldn't have continued taking classes.

 

Bottom line - you can't objectively prove your assertions with factual data, which makes your crowing over my not doing the same over subscription numbers earlier in this very thread the very definition of irony.

But I just crowed about you being wrong... that's all that matters right and wrong... you don't need to prove a fact to someone who is wrong... it's their job to learn to be right...

 

Just remember how certain you were that you knew what you were talking about... even when you were completely wrong.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It seems obvious to me VIKINGNAIL that you like more twitchy style games, and for you that's fine.  But twitch style players are not inherently more skilled that masters of chess; they are different crafts.

 

I've heard the argument for years that twitch is the only type of "skill"; and on that point I have to disagree.  I would more align myself with what Mazon is getting at; that some people prefer deep fantasy games, and worlds where they can really get into their characters.  FPS type games are non-persistent and there is really no character growth.  I'm not saying that's bad, and I realize that a lot of people really enjoy those types of games, but they aren't for everyone.

 

But it doesn't matter because if this game fits my style of play without any esports, then it's a game I will play.  If it reminds me of SB quite a bit, and it brings back good memories then all the better.  I agree with Regulus that only our skill in CF matters.  Now skills sets that you acquire in other games can help you in certain situations in CF, but being good at an FPS will not guarantee a success in CF.  Why haven't more football players like Deion Sanders or Bo Jackson also play baseball?  Probably because either they don't like the sport, or while they are exceptional athletes they don't posses the skillset to automatically be good in another sport.

 

Skill is different across all genres of games; are you willing to accept that and allow us to enjoy our SB memories?


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But I just crowed about you being wrong... that's all that matters right and wrong... you don't need to prove a fact to someone who is wrong... it's their job to learn to be right...

 

Just remember how certain you were that you knew what you were talking about... even when you were completely wrong.

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/

 

Click the full Excel data sheet, when it opens, go to cell 39 CF (coincidence?) and see that from June to July, the subs count increased. Now, I can't tell you the methodology used to calculate it, but I did say that I recalled seeing something that said it did increase. There you go. You'll notice that while the numbers fell off a cliff in August, in December they rebounded nearly to where they were in July 2003.

 

Had you paid attention to other posts I have made over the last year, you would know that I don't shoot from the hip and make stuff up as I go along. While that may work for you, I prefer to go with actual data. It looks like what I was wrong about was... well, being wrong.

Edited by vandarr

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http://mmodata.blogspot.com/

 

Click the full Excel data sheet, when it opens, go to cell 39 CF (coincidence?) and see that from June to July, the subs count increased. Now, I can't tell you the methodology used to calculate it, but I did say that I recalled seeing something that said it did increase. There you go. You'll notice that while the numbers fell off a cliff in August, in December they rebounded nearly to where they were in July 2003.

 

Had you paid attention to other posts I have made over the last year, you would know that I don't shoot from the hip and make stuff up as I go along. While that may work for you, I prefer to go with actual data.

Sorry but that isn't data... I don't think you understand what data actually is. 

 

Shadowbane sold what 200000 copies right off the bat?  Your "data" never even comes close to floating actual accurate numbers.

 

At this point you are just desperate to find anything to justify your inaccurate perception... but it doesn't make your perception any less wrong, even if you saw some graph with inaccurate numbers you are still the one that decided to believe those numbers instead of doing actual research. 

 

But hey according to your "data" shadowbane never had more than 50k subs in the first place... and if we wanna go by that "data" then the game was even more tragically dead than I've mentioned.

 

Enjoy your "data" chief.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-3.png

 

Now imagine how confident you were in your perception when you made that post... imagine how you thought you had been vindicated... now see what happened...

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Skills actually always matter though... it's just that most people don't know how to translate certain skills into different environments... Twitch experts have a better shot of excelling because you can teach decision making to a degree, you can't really teach people with really crappy mechanical skill to ever get decent in that regard.

 

Perhaps.  Although, I do look forward to sending more than a few back to WoW 3v3s. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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