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mortalman

Kill The Pill... Use Character Mesh As The Hitbox!

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Why?  Mortal Online is an MMO and it has hitboxes a lot like CS:GO's...

I don't think the game could handle it. I don't know the details of Mortal Online but i think the "demand" on CF server and client is a little higher.

 

Wouldn't matter to me in terms of gameplay, either way, although I suppose there would be some people who would see it as us becoming more twitch/fps.

Edited by oberon

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I don't think the game could handle it. I don't know the details of Mortal Online but i think the "demand" on CF server and client is a little higher.

 

Wouldn't matter to me in terms of gameplay, either way, although I suppose there would be some people who would see it as us becoming more twitch/fps.

 

I don't think that a feeling is sufficient enough to determine whether or not the game can handle multiple hit-boxes. There is a reason load testing exists, so that we can know for sure how system's perform under load, identify bottlenecks, and then correct them. There is a reason that Crowfall is doing pre-alpha combat testing soon, so they can find out how the system is performing, and then use that information to drive development.

 

So, can it do it without a significant performance loss? No one knows until they try. I don't think speculation on the topic is really all that productive. I think we should be asking, if Crowfall could do it, should they?

Edited by Raizex

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I don't think that a feeling is sufficient enough to determine whether or not the game can handle multiple hit-boxes. There is a reason load testing exists, so that we can know for sure how system's perform under load, identify bottlenecks, and then correct them. There is a reason that Crowfall is doing pre-alpha combat testing soon, so they can find out how the system is performing, and then use that information to drive development.

 

So, can it do it without a significant performance loss? No one knows until they try. I don't think speculation on the topic is really all that productive. I think we should be asking, if Crowfall could do it, should they?

 

I agree with you, feelings won't be deciding whether we do or don't get them :)

Edited by oberon

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Character meshes aren't hitboxes.  Period.  I'm pretty confident saying they have never been, in any game, ever.  There's just absolutely no value added, and anyone who thinks it's "worth a shot" is severely underestimating the technical challenges presented by the idea.

 

Here's a little math problem.  If I give you the points of a triangle in 2-D space, could you (with some time and scrap paper, maybe a calculator) tell me whether or not a dot was inside the triangle, given it's position?  How about if instead of a triangle it was a square?  An octagon?  Seem reasonable still?

 

Well how about if it was a star?  Or a cross?  Or a block-letter "F".  If you just went from going "I think that sounds plausible" to "wait...umm..." then you're seeing how quickly the complexity of the problem increases.

 

Now make it 3D and imagine that you aren't even using well-defined shapes, but rather an amorphous 3D object represented by a few thousand-million XYZ coordinates which also bends due to animation logic....and then realize how impossible you've made the problem.

 

Not to mention, the value added, like I said, is virtually nothing.  We aren't threading needles with silk, we're slashing a sword at someone's torso, or dropping a fireball on an area.  An abstraction will still effectively define what you're hitting, and it won't need to have all the detail of a character mesh.

 

That's not to mention physics concerns, when you have to start realizing that the art design is now going to have unexpected impacts on physics ("Oh crap, it turns out this character get's stuck in the door in this edge case because the tip of clothing on his shoulder stuck out too far and clipped the wall.")

 

 

Now that said, I imagine a single pill also isn't really their long-term hitbox for all characters (purely because obviously the Lego is shaped in a way that isn't...well...pill shaped).  If a character is having clipping/collision issues, then they can add a few more components to the hit-box.  They may end up using a pill for the torso, one for each limb, and a head pill.  These are pretty standard collision-detection strategies in game development, and they work.

 

TL;DR: Trust that these devs with years of experience understand how to do collision detection.  It's not a new or unique problem in the field, it's already been figured out, and they are doing it right.

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Think of the lag....

 

I'm already worried about the latency of mass battles in this game with regular pill hitboxes because so many mmos have gotten mass pvp wrong recently...This would complicate the problem by several 1000


Do not wish it is easier, wish you were better.

A hero need not speak. When he is gone, the world will speak for him.

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I actually think they probably should stray away from accurate hitboxes permanently unless they back off their decision to have hard CC. Imagine some scrub member of a Zerg lands a stun on you, then they all sit there getting easy head shots until you can move again.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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If you have a character-shaped mesh for your hitbox it has to change every step in the game's internal clock because the character is animated. You can pull it off in a game like Dark Souls, but having that work properly in an MMO sounds like a complete nightmare. If you imagine something like the character from Minecraft, made of a few boxes, that would be more reasonable.

 

 Weapon hitboxes being scaled properly to each weapon is doable though, I think. I only really understand collision coding for 2d stuff.

Edited by 11nephilim

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*snip*

 

All true and well put. A few bizarre examples not withstanding... NOBODY uses the character mesh as a hitbox, as you say. God help you if your models are concave in any way. Even something like CSGO uses very simple shapes to get a 'feel' for the character's shape (and CSGO has a history of janky hitboxes, go figure). But to go further... even these simplified hitboxes mimicking the model probably aren't right for the game.

 

You have 2 legs, 2 arms, a torso, a head. Make them all out of capsules so it's fairly simple... you still have a big problem because we aren't talking about firing raycasts... we have actual objects. With a capsule, you can fire a ball at it and guess how it will bounce pretty well. With a more complex mesh... good toffing luck. That same ball might get trapped in an armpit or bouncing between the legs, racking up untold damage. Or a line you've fired at someone might be broken by that same player's arm falling infront of it. Arms or legs getting stuck on your irregularly-shaped voxel world, being punished horrible for having 4 legs instead of 1. Etc etc.

 

What you have with capsules is a player-friendly, accessible, predictable, skillful gameplay mechanic for interaction with physics objects. It's easy to develop for and it's easy for a player to use meaningfully. The more complex the hitbox, the more you crush that very worthwhile goal. Not only that but you'd need to closely examine every skill with every character from every imaginable angle to check for weird effects... or worse add all kinds of clauses to every object to stop it interacting in those ways.

 

Capsules are great. They fit the purpose and they're easy to work with.

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