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Shadowbane Vs Crowfall

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They aren't the same pvper though... the pvp population in 2003 was many many many times smaller..... that small population is no longer the average...

 

We've also already seen how the current pvpers adapt to open world pvp in the survival genre... We also know that the game is action combat.

 

Crowfall may be unique within its genre when it comes out, but there are elements of it across many of the modern games that won't seem very unfamiliar to your avid and well-rounded gamers.

 

It will probably be easier for the newer gamers to adapt to crowfall than the people that don't play very modern games. 

Yeah because gamers who play older games do not play newer games at all.. This is problem today with the industry, people split poorly made socks up...

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Yeah because gamers who play older games do not play newer games at all.. This is problem today with the industry, people split poorly made socks up...

You are quite correct... a lot of the older mmorpg players do not gravitate to newer games for varying reasons.  I remember when Landmark introduced action combat for the first time to people who were accustomed to the old school tab-target type combat... it was quite a shell shock. 

 

Crowfall will probably go through similar growing pains....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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You are quite correct... a lot of the older mmorpg players do not gravitate to newer games for varying reasons.  I remember when Landmark introduced action combat for the first time to people who were accustomed to the old school tab-target type combat... it was quite a shell shock. 

 

Crowfall will probably go through similar growing pains....

I was being sarcastic.. I rarely meet anyone who has not quite the game collection. The few that are the opposite are mostly because of age. 30-60 year olds are able to adapt more than they could 15 years ago.

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My experiences are quite the opposite... I rarely ever meet someone older than 25 that adapts easily and excels at the newer games... some are able to but it's very very rare....

 

Father time is undefeated....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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My experiences are quite the opposite... I rarely ever meet someone older than 25 that adapts easily and excels at the newer games... some are able to but it's very very rare....

 

Father time is undefeated....

 

how's that work then...

you claiming to be a gaming god and all, but at the same time, you're no spring chicken either...

 

that seems weird

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how's that work then...

you claiming to be a gaming god and all, but at the same time, you're no spring chicken either...

 

that seems weird

Yea it's very very rare...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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In dubanka's post (hope it's dubanka i saw the shield and not much else), he alludes to game mechanics from SB that obviously influenced Crowfall. The EK is all but obvious. Todd wants to wipe your assets, but he wants you to be able to keep some as well. The upside to shadowbane was you could completely wipe someone off the map if they disgruntled you off; the downside to shadowbane was you could completely wipe someone off the map if they disgruntled you off. The EK will allow people to keep their pixels after campaigns are said and done.

 

He's even mentioned that seeing a population rush at a new server up inspired him to create the idea of campaigns. Persistent characters already have a step above server reset pains.

 

I just hope he doesn't forget the one of the two reasons people played on a server up: pvp and getting a city. The pvp rush is obvious. The second point is really important considering they want to have people claim a ruins. You just needed to farm enough gold to buy a Seed of Life and a guild charter to get a city. Ironically, the rush was to see who was the best at PvE (or farming players enough to get gold. unlikely since they'd delete their gold, recall, evac, etc) to get the gold needed to start a city. (speaking post-launch. not the easy mode VN and his fellow neckbeards had where they just watch the map and run to a tree when it's planted and knock it down as a sapling).

 

It shouldn't be where a zerg is the only one that can get a ruins, but it shouldn't reward one guy who runs around and clicks "claim" first.

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In dubanka's post (hope it's dubanka i saw the shield and not much else), he alludes to game mechanics from SB that obviously influenced Crowfall. The EK is all but obvious. Todd wants to wipe your assets, but he wants you to be able to keep some as well. The upside to shadowbane was you could completely wipe someone off the map if they disgruntled you off; the downside to shadowbane was you could completely wipe someone off the map if they disgruntled you off. The EK will allow people to keep their pixels after campaigns are said and done.

 

He's even mentioned that seeing a population rush at a new server up inspired him to create the idea of campaigns. Persistent characters already have a step above server reset pains.

 

I just hope he doesn't forget the one of the two reasons people played on a server up: pvp and getting a city. The pvp rush is obvious. The second point is really important considering they want to have people claim a ruins. You just needed to farm enough gold to buy a Seed of Life and a guild charter to get a city. Ironically, the rush was to see who was the best at PvE (or farming players enough to get gold. unlikely since they'd delete their gold, recall, evac, etc) to get the gold needed to start a city. (speaking post-launch. not the easy mode VN and his fellow neckbeards had where they just watch the map and run to a tree when it's planted and knock it down as a sapling).

 

It shouldn't be where a zerg is the only one that can get a ruins, but it shouldn't reward one guy who runs around and clicks "claim" first.

Well the fact that the ruins will be guarded and you won't all start in the same location and the maps are randomized and there is fog of war and such will mean you need to find ruins, you need to scout enough of the map to decide whether the location is good, you need to meet up with your allies to clear the ruins, and you need to gather enough mats to start building up those ruins.  During that time a lot of things can happen, including people disrupting your plans....

 

There may be times that people find ruins in more remote locations and can build it up with a small group undetected by anyone else... there may be times where ruins are in such an ideal location that no one can really get something going there because everyone is fighting each other. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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My experiences are quite the opposite... I rarely ever meet someone older than 25 that adapts easily and excels at the newer games... some are able to but it's very very rare....

 

Father time is undefeated....

Ageist! I'll kick your tail at Pong, whippersnapper.


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My experiences are quite the opposite... I rarely ever meet someone older than 25 that adapts easily and excels at the newer games... some are able to but it's very very rare....

 

Father time is undefeated....

Those are your experiences though. I know plenty of people older than 25 who play new games and adapt better than most young people. It depends on the person, not their age. Especially if you come from games that require drastic adaptation every second.


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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Those are your experiences though. I know plenty of people older than 25 who play new games and adapt better than most young people. It depends on the person, not their age. Especially if you come from games that require drastic adaptation every second.

Vn will always argue the opposite... 

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Those are your experiences though. I know plenty of people older than 25 who play new games and adapt better than most young people. It depends on the person, not their age. Especially if you come from games that require drastic adaptation every second.

Well since you enjoy playing CSGO you can look to the CSGO competitive scene to see just how few older players there are compared to young ones at the top level. 

 

In the last csgo major the 2 finalist teams had no players over 24 years old and only 1 player that was 24 years old... If you include the top 4 teams only 3 players out of 20 were over age 25. 

 

Heck you can look at any big pc pvp games to see the pattern.... You have a few older players here or there with the majority of the best players being young, and the more mechanically intensive the game, the less older players you generally have. 

 

Just as in sports the older you get the slower you start to become, your body breaks down a bit... you become more prone to injury etc...

 

Crowfall's upper echelon of players will be young adults for the most part... with that comes a different take on gaming, a newer era of players and a different culture compared to an mmorpg back in the early 2000s.  For better or for worse...  You can never go back in the past... That's why you see all those funny youtube videos where older folks are introduced to something modern, or younger folks are introduced to something old and their reactions are completely different than the other crowd.  Even with crowfall being somewhat of a spiritual successor to shadowbane, it's released in a completely different time, and that will create a completely different experience. 

 

The different gaming cultures between the eras itself is going to make for drastically different gameplay experiences, and that's not even factoring in the different mechanics that each game will have...

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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See, there is where your logic train derails. Games like CSGO are not strategic in nature - SB was. If they publish what they are promising, the strategy will be an integral part of the game. So, while youth may be served tactically with twitch combat, older and wiser players (in experience for a game of this type, not in age) will set things up strategically to make the battle's outcome virtually foretold before the first shot was fired.

Edited by vandarr

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See, there is where your logic train derails. Games like CSGO are not strategic in nature - SB was. If they publish what they are promising, the strategy will be an integral part of the game. So, while youth may be served tactically with twitch combat, older and wiser players (in experience for a game of this type, not in age) will set things up strategically to make the battle's outcome virtually foretold before the first shot was fired.

CSGO has a very relevant strategic aspect to it... That's why they have strat callers and professional coaches. 

 

But your post just highlights something very important... unlike shadowbane crowfall requires mechanics to execute your plans... shadowbane required very little mechanics.... because crowfall requires mechanics being an action combat game, there is no winning on pure planning alone... you have to be able to execute your plan, which in crowfall's case will require mechanical skill and coordination. 

 

Also strategy and tactics specifically in pvp video games has only gotten deeper and deeper as it has been played professionally more and more and been pushed to the limits.  Those professional games spawned the next wave of player vs player games with new depth and emphasis on execution. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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See, there is where your logic train derails. Games like CSGO are not strategic in nature - SB was. If they publish what they are promising, the strategy will be an integral part of the game. So, while youth may be served tactically with twitch combat, older and wiser players (in experience for a game of this type, not in age) will set things up strategically to make the battle's outcome virtually foretold before the first shot was fired.

 

like driving.

 

16-25 year olds have reflexes and senses that should make them superior drivers compared to the 'aged masses'.

 

however the opposite is true. 

 

They are, by far, the worst drivers because a) their brains aren't fully developed from a 'judgement' standpoint...ie. risk B) they lack the experience to recognize hazardous situations before they actually occur and c) they know better...so anything old custards tell them with regard to a & b is categorically disregarded.

 

I will hands down give the whipper snappers the gold star for 'mechanical combat' twitch skills, reaction time, time to stare at a screen to develop the required muscle memory to make actions automatic...all that poorly made socks fades as you get older, and your time becomes more valuable/occupied.

 

as it pertains to crowfall, and BACK TO THE OP'S QUESTION, i don't think this will matter a whole bunch...yeah it will matter if you wind up solo, in a dark alley, against some kid who has 10hrs/day to play video games...but, just like Shadowbane, individual contests of skill are likely to be more the exception to the rule. This will be a team based game...what I see mattering more is how well groups of individuals operate together...unit cohesion. 

 

Of course, that's just on the field...just like Shadowbane...the macro game of territorial control and politics will ultimately decide who wins servers. 

 

so yes, i will cede to the knowledge that my 6 click mouse combo speed will likely pale in comparison to the OMG ELITEZ!!! But we'll see...i'm betting it won't actually matter that much...

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CSGO has a very relevant strategic aspect to it... That's why they have strat callers and professional coaches. 

 

But your post just highlights something very important... unlike shadowbane crowfall requires mechanics to execute your plans... shadowbane required very little mechanics.... because crowfall requires mechanics being an action combat game, there is no winning on pure planning alone... you have to be able to execute your plan, which in crowfall's case will require mechanical skill and coordination. 

 

Also strategy and tactics specifically in pvp video games has only gotten deeper and deeper as it has been played professionally more and more and been pushed to the limits.  Those professional games spawned the next wave of player vs player games with new depth and emphasis on execution. 

What strategy does any FPS have once the instance begins? Please enlighten me. To be clear, and overly simplistic, tactical gameplay is shooting and getting shot at. Strategic gameplay is what gets the bullets to the field.

 

So, for example, while folks may say "Uber Corner Peek Strats to Rule with", they are mistaken - peeking corners is a tactic, not a strategy.


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What strategy does any FPS have once the instance begins? Please enlighten me. To be clear, and overly simplistic, tactical gameplay is shooting and getting shot at. Strategic gameplay is what gets the bullets to the field.

 

So, for example, while folks may say "Uber Corner Peek Strats to Rule with", they are mistaken - peeking corners is a tactic, not a strategy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_%28game_theory%29

 

Strategy and tactics go hand in hand... any time a player is peeking a corner certain way that is a tactic towards a larger strategy....

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Well since you enjoy playing CSGO you can look to the CSGO competitive scene to see just how few older players there are compared to young ones at the top level. 

 

In the last csgo major the 2 finalist teams had no players over 24 years old and only 1 player that was 24 years old... If you include the top 4 teams only 3 players out of 20 were over age 25. 

 

Heck you can look at any big pc pvp games to see the pattern.... You have a few older players here or there with the majority of the best players being young, and the more mechanically intensive the game, the less older players you generally have. 

 

Just as in sports the older you get the slower you start to become, your body breaks down a bit... you become more prone to injury etc...

 

Crowfall's upper echelon of players will be young adults for the most part... with that comes a different take on gaming, a newer era of players and a different culture compared to an mmorpg back in the early 2000s.  For better or for worse...  You can never go back in the past... That's why you see all those funny youtube videos where older folks are introduced to something modern, or younger folks are introduced to something old and their reactions are completely different than the other crowd.  Even with crowfall being somewhat of a spiritual successor to shadowbane, it's released in a completely different time, and that will create a completely different experience. 

 

The different gaming cultures between the eras itself is going to make for drastically different gameplay experiences, and that's not even factoring in the different mechanics that each game will have...

 

While that is true, csgo is dominated by younger players, there are plenty of people 25+ that are able to play at that level.  You even stated yourself there are some 25+ players in top tier teams.  One thing to remember, it isn't always about one individuals skill, granted it gives them an advantage, but here's something that will throw a wrench into your logic.  Years ago in CS:Source a team was made that included players with the best tournament statistics, I'm talking the best of all upper tier players, and yet they couldn't hardly win at all even though they were the best of the best.  I wonder why that is..  With how Crowfall is looking, I can assume it will be very team oriented, much like CS is.  If you've ever played in the upper  levels of CS (which I doubt you have), you would know that having insanely good hand eye coordination and reflexes is only part of what it takes to be good.  Some of those youngsters are slower than people many years older than them, but they do well because of their team and their ability to support their team.  Also, your comparing a game that requires precise movements, precise aiming, precise execution, fast reflexes, precise coordination, etc to a game that most likely won't be anywhere close to needing any of that when going into combat.  The one thing that will be similar is having to adapt, but adapting in Crowfall will happen at a MUCH slower pace, hence why those who are older will still have a chance, especially if they come from games such as CS which require adaptation just about every minute..

 

Also Vandar, I already said this earlier, but CS is not all about being able to out shoot your opponent, there are many instances where you have an awper who can barely use a rifle get pop flashed through smoke and ends up getting 3 kills simply because the opponents were blind and he was able to use 20-30 shots to get 3 people.  Insane teamwork will almost always win against those who have none.  Been playing CS for 10 years, 8 of them competitively.

 

This thread has now become Crowfall VS SB VS FPS games lol


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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