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Shadowbane Vs Crowfall

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While that is true, csgo is dominated by younger players, there are plenty of people 25+ that are able to play at that level.  You even stated yourself there are some 25+ players in top tier teams.  One thing to remember, it isn't always about one individuals skill, granted it gives them an advantage, but here's something that will throw a wrench into your logic.  Years ago in CS:Source a team was made that included players with the best tournament statistics, I'm talking the best of all upper tier players, and yet they couldn't hardly win at all even though they were the best of the best.  I wonder why that is..  With how Crowfall is looking, I can assume it will be very team oriented, much like CS is.  If you've ever played in the upper  levels of CS (which I doubt you have), you would know that having insanely good hand eye coordination and reflexes is only part of what it takes to be good.  Some of those youngsters are slower than people many years older than them, but they do well because of their team and their ability to support their team.  Also, your comparing a game that requires precise movements, precise aiming, precise execution, fast reflexes, precise coordination, etc to a game that most likely won't be anywhere close to needing any of that when going into combat.  The one thing that will be similar is having to adapt, but adapting in Crowfall will happen at a MUCH slower pace, hence why those who are older will still have a chance, especially if they come from games such as CS which require adaptation just about every minute..

 

Also Vandar, I already said this earlier, but CS is not all about being able to out shoot your opponent, there are many instances where you have an awper who can barely use a rifle get pop flashed through smoke and ends up getting 3 kills simply because the opponents were blind and he was able to use 20-30 shots to get 3 people.  Insane teamwork will almost always win against those who have none.  Been playing CS for 10 years, 8 of them competitively.

 

This thread has now become Crowfall VS SB VS FPS games lol

Without going too much into CS, though i think you've made some pretty inaccurate assumptions about it, plainly put in every PC competitive pvp genre the top end is dominated by younger players... they generally have better mechanics + decision making package than their older opponents.... 15% representation from players over 25 in big tournaments is hardly a good sign that older players can often compete. 

 

While crowfall will not be an fps... it will be a third person shooter, aim and reflex will matter, they just won't decisively win you a 1v1 in 1 second like an fps might. 

 

Instead you are asked to repeatedly aim and react correctly over a longer fight, but each instance of hitting or missing can contribute to your loss or defeat.  This is a lot different to shadowbane because shadowbane was a slow paced tab-target game. 

 

We've already seen some videos and while things are subject to change, we do get an idea of what they are looking at for their combat....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Instead you are asked to repeatedly aim and react correctly over a longer fight, but each instance of hitting or missing can contribute to your loss or defeat.  This is a lot different to shadowbane because shadowbane was a slow paced tab-target game. 

 

We've already seen some videos and while things are subject to change, we do get an idea of what they are looking at for their combat....

 

you seem really hung up on the belief that none of the long term sb players actually play other games, and do so fairly well. anyway.

 

Actually i dont think the videos we have seen illustrate what 'they are looking at for their combat' at all...they illustrate some of the individual skills and movements...giving you an idea of how that character might function in an engagement...but again, just wagering, I think they are looking at a combat model balanced around groups of players, not individuals.

 

Individual skill counts for something...more so the smaller the fight gets...as you scale up those numbers group composition, interaction and reaction speed typically play a much greater roll than the skills of one player.

 

but feel free to hang on to the notion...you can be that guy screaming, "...LETS DUEL!!!!!!..."

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you seem really hung up on the belief that none of the long term sb players actually play other games, and do so fairly well. anyway.

 

Actually i dont think the videos we have seen illustrate what 'they are looking at for their combat' at all...they illustrate some of the individual skills and movements...giving you an idea of how that character might function in an engagement...but again, just wagering, I think they are looking at a combat model balanced around groups of players, not individuals.

 

Individual skill counts for something...more so the smaller the fight gets...as you scale up those numbers group composition, interaction and reaction speed typically play a much greater roll than the skills of one player.

 

but feel free to hang on to the notion...you can be that guy screaming, "...LETS DUEL!!!!!!..."

This is actually a misconception brought on by people playing large scale battles in a system that didn't require as much individual skill.

 

You are only as strong as your weakest link in a game where player skill matters.  Obviously your group matters, and obviously if each person in the group is capable of spectacular play it gives your group a large advantage as a whole. 

 

I think the videos have shown a lot... when you watch a games development you can get a feel for what the devs have in mind by what types of things they are experimenting with and how they are experimenting with it. 

 

We've seen in team based competitive environments that individual skill still matters a ton, because it helps the strength of the group as a whole, in crowfall individual skill will still matter a ton because you are still required to aim and move well. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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This is actually a misconception brought on by people playing large scale battles in a system that didn't require as much individual skill.

 

You are only as strong as your weakest link in a game where player skill matters.  Obviously your group matters, and obviously if each person in the group is capable of spectacular play it gives your group a large advantage as a whole. 

 

I think the videos have shown a lot... when you watch a games development you can get a feel for what the devs have in mind by what types of things they are experimenting with and how they are experimenting with it. 

 

We've seen in team based competitive environments that individual skill still matters a ton, because it helps the strength of the group as a whole, in crowfall individual skill will still matter a ton because you are still required to aim and move well. 

 

  Individual skill matters to a certain point, you can have someone extremely smart out play someone who has godlike coordination.  I've seen it more times than I can count.  I've even seen it happen 1v1, in CS of all games.  Besides, my original point still is everything right now is assumption, I think it is safe to assume SB players will be able to hold their own, but I may be completely wrong.  Just like the culture.  I don't think it has changed at all over the years and that the SB culture will be alive and well within Crowfall, but again, I maybe wrong.  It will definitely be an interesting journey.


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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i honestly think that the first stages of beta are going to be make or break for a lot of the 'more casual'...the '2016 pvpr'...as anecdotally, i think a fair portion of the ~3k alpha participants are sucky playing sb loyalists...and once that big blob of read meat (beta1) comes crashing into the servers they'll get their first ever taste of 'real' open world pvp.

 

it will be a real unknown how the faction/arena trained vets of wow/gw2/aa/etc. take to this environment.

 

Re: OP

 

I really believe they are setting out to make the spiritual successor to shadowbane...how they look to solve the two core reasons why sb failed will go a long way to determining how well they stick to that. Obviously i'm discounting the issue of 'bugs'...as i don't think anyone goes to to purposefully release a bugfilled monstrosity like sb was at releaseso 2 things.

 

 

While there will be some adjustment necessary, the skills should translate fairly easily from the wow/gw2/aa games. Most of these games rely on communication as the central pillar of effective game play, knowing the mechanics of the game and understanding your opponent are also very important.  If you were effective in other games there is no reason you can't transition into CF and adjust as necessary.

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I'll wager that one of the primary reasons that "most" competitive teams are comprised of those in their early 20s is simply based off of free time. As people grow up and settle into their jobs/family they typically have less and less time for games. 

Edited by Verot

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I'll wager that one of the primary reasons that "most" competitive teams are comprised of those in their early 20s is simply based off of free time. As people grow up and settle into their jobs/family they typically have less and less time for games. 

We can see this is untrue at higher levels of competitive play as the older players get phased out because they can't perform as well, not because they get jobs... as gaming was their job til they got phased out. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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We can see this is untrue at higher levels of competitive play as the older players get phased out because they can't perform as well, not because they get jobs... as gaming was their job til they got phased out. 

Perhaps they just get tired of the long hours and decide to do something else where they can make a similar salary. Unlike other sports, the rules and skills needed to compete change so drastically from game to game, it's like starting your career as a rookie every 6-7 years.

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/02/01/pro-gamers-story-get-big-burn-out-retire-young.html

 

Alternatively, maybe they just want to get laid.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pro-gamer-making-six-figures-explains-why-many-players-dont-have-girlfriends-2015-5

 

The internet. It's not just for porn.


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Perhaps they just get tired of the long hours and decide to do something else where they can make a similar salary. Unlike other sports, the rules and skills needed to compete change so drastically from game to game, it's like starting your career as a rookie every 6-7 years.

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/02/01/pro-gamers-story-get-big-burn-out-retire-young.html

 

Alternatively, maybe they just want to get laid.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pro-gamer-making-six-figures-explains-why-many-players-dont-have-girlfriends-2015-5

 

The internet. It's not just for porn.

People do get burned out, like they do in other fields as well, but it's not like they go out on top.  They get burned out because of how much effort they put in to try and compete with the top players, without satisfactory results as they get phased out. 

 

The rules changing aren't really like you make them out to be, most of these pros last one game because the window for being a pro-gamer is so short before their skills start to deteriorate.  With many pros starting to retire because of wrist and hand problems created by extensive strain they put on themselves through so much play.  

 

If their skills didn't deteriorate they definitely would stick around, because the opportunities are only getting greater, people are making more and more money.... the pie is growing... but when father time hits you you are done. 

 

The vast majority of top level gamers, whether you are talking world class pros, or just extremely high-rated online play, are young.... it's a very small percentage of older gamers that have the skills to keep up. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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CSGO has no strategy? Interesting, not like there's an in-game economy or map selections or anything of the sort. Hmm.

I think it's important to note that the scope of strategy and tactics generally get pretty blurred... is a strategy to win a war? is it to win a battle within a war?  It all depends who you ask and when you ask it. 

 

To me strategies are very broad goals, tactics are much more interesting because they are the actually execution to attain those goals.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Meh, regardless of what you say or think VN, I wouldn't rule out anyone who is older.  I've seen to many instances where people 25+ are better than their younger counter parts, especially in team oriented situations.  Youngsters may have the natural ability to be quick and have the coordination to make a certain shot/move, but they won't be able to account for the experience the older gamers bring to the table, or the coordinated attacks that an older gamer could execute.  Knowledge is very powerful...  I've been playing CS competitively for only 8 years, over the last 4 my coordination has not advanced at all, but I am a much better player now than I was back then simply because I know how to support my teammates and I know my role and they support me.  That is much more important than individual skill.  Unless you want to be the guy running around yelling "duel me duel me duel me"...


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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Hopefully those who get to play soon can give us some good insight as to the similarities and differences!


"Paint me like one of your French girls Jack"

                                                                      -Unknown

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There will be absolutely no similarities in the combat.

 

The biggest similarity I see will just be the play styles.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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only thing i see thats simular are the names of some of the peeps I ll be killin

I only hope they have the world kill messages from SB

 

Hillbilly Keelhauled a peerat

Hillbilly Axed an elf

Hillbilly Panty Raided OPP

 

 

aaah jus like old times  :)


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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