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Blender

CF and Esports

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well if more people in the world do these thinking kind of sports maybe there would be less violence and hatred exist in it, who knows

Lol that has absolutely nothing to do with the definition. Youre really going off the rails here


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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Ok then lets give it a try, shall we?!

Sports is activity, activity in any kind of view, and so thinking is of course sports too. So even thinking about what is sports and whats not is sports in itself. The brain is by far your most active and important organ which uses most of your energy

And when a time comes where your body is dump and your brain working is all you got left you would probably able to understand.

And if pulling weight is sports i dont see any reason why somethign like chess or oregami wouldnt be sport activity either.

Everything inspiring activity, you can grow upon would be sports, and if its a contest rolling a cheese down a hill and the first who grabs it wins.


After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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One reason i cant see it being an eSports thing is because there is no consistency between the characters of the same type. 

 

What i mean by this is people are always gonna be confused if they see a knight in one match using nothing but their basic swings and knight abilities, then in another match seeing a knight shooting fireballs because he just happened to have the Pyromaniac Discipline. Then in another match watching a knight shooting multi-shots with their bow and arrows because they had the Archery Discipline. There is no way for any person to follow how each character is playing when the scales of what that character can do is constantly different. Cause now they not only have to learn about the knight t o understand the combat flow, but they have to learn every possible discipline combination the knight can use.

 

MOBAs work decently well because even a new person can see Character A in one match and watch how they decimate the enemies, then the next time they see Character A in a match they know exactly what character A can do, then the player themselves can see different scenarios in which they as a spectator can say "ahh i see why character A did this instead of that" or " aww man if character A woulda had its ult up right then, they coulda defiantly secured those kills"

 

Shooters also work well because at the base level, literally everything is a gun. You point you shoot, most people dont know the stats of guns anyways, different types of players like to use different types of guns.

 

If there was some level of consistency it could possibly work, but to get that level of consistency they would be tearing away other parts of the game. So the eSports version would just be a watered down and diluted version of actual CF.

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I wasn't expressly suggesting that crowfall change to fit into the current Esport format. In fact almost the opposite, adding in spectator support could enable an almost "reality TV" "mini-series" setup. Highlights from the week could be put together to chronicle a multimonth event (like a more concise sport's center on ESPN)

Edited by Blender

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The sense of a tournament as a series of separate matches is not intrinsic to the word. The original tournaments consisted of a single large melee where the knights were divided into two groups and fought each other until exhausted.

 

The word literally means "turning" and refers to a mounted knight turning around to seek new targets after charging through an enemy line.

 

Calling the winners bracket campaign a tournament is a perfectly legitimate use of the word.

 

Ok, but then every campaign would be considered a tournament, or not? I think you can say so, that a campaign is a tournament.

But from a special term like tournament compared to the usual name campaign, i was believing it was something a bit different


After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Ok, but then every campaign would be considered a tournament, or not? I think you can say so, that a campaign is a tournament.

But from a special term like tournament compared to the usual name campaign, i was believing it was something a bit different

 

Tournaments! We will add a single-elimination Tournament ladder for guilds to compete on a annual (or bi-annual) basis. Guilds will have to win a Campaign to qualify, at which point they will be pitted against each other in a single elimination, winner-take-all Tournament to take home the Dragon Throne -- an Artifact which benefits everyone in the Kingdom -- and which shows, without question, which Guild is the best.

 

 

The difference is that you need to win a normal Campaign to qualify for the Tournament.  Crowfall Tournaments will pit Campaign-winning Guilds against each other.  That is enough to differentiate them from normal Campaigns.


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The thing is, the MMORPG genre has become all about game features and mechanics.  Factions of players have gathered around different features/mechanics and demanded that games cater to them (we are raiders! we are casuals! etc.).  Once upon a time, MMOs used to be about worlds. The more ACE can make CF about its core theme and the campaign worlds (and even EKs) the better the game will be.  Let the players create the content through conflict and do not inflict unnecessary rule sets and extraneous additions upon them in order to cater to an additional type of gamer.  Stay true to the mission of the game--that is the only way you're ever going to have something worth playing.     

 

I totally agree with you.  I hope they'll just put aside the tournament system and any other features that have nothing to do with their vision of Crowfall. As far as I know, they haven't said that this system would be implemented at launch, so there's still hope that they find another way to make campaigns more meaningful for competitive players.

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Wannabe esports moba #123213235 -- no thanks.

 

Do ppl really not realize how insane it is to think that a niche KS game can really compete with the largest games in history? Lots of MMOs have arenas, but barely anybody cares about playing them let alone attracting tens of thousands of viewers.

Edited by jacobin

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I find it strange so many of you are against an arena gameplay mode in Crowfall. I really don't care if they try to attract the eSports crowd or not but I do hope they put in some kind of arena format. The maps should be small and fairly symmetrical made for a few small teams.

 

A few reasons for this:

 

1. Sometimes you just want to be able to fight another group in a relatively controlled environment within a reasonable amount of time.

2. Watching and streaming arena matches on twitch is fun for many people and It is also good advertising the game.

3. This could be something you do between campaigns in the EK or with a character not currently in a campaign.

4. They are balancing the game for both small scale and large scale encounters so why not have mode like the Hunger Dome be a permanent aspect of the game.

5. Fits well into an ELO ladder and allows for teams and players to show they are better than others.

6 PVP is fun....so more ways to PVP means more fun. At least that is my opinion.

 

Lopar

The Cult

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If you want to do this in your EK nobody is stopping you.

 

ACE attempting to compete in the MOBA gaming space makes as much sense as LoL adding a 6 month campaign mode. A company should focus on doing one thing well before branching out.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Adding an arena match system to Crowfall is not ACE trying to compete with LOL or any other MOBA. it is simply another game format for players to experience and compete within. Players have been looking for dueling and arena experiences in MMO's from about the very beginning.

 

I remember in Ultima Online we used to create our own arena area with chests or tables and let people or teams fight it out inside the ring. The same thing can be said for every other MMO I have played. In Shadowbane. R30s or Burning Legion (can't remember what we were at the time) created an arena out of city walls so we could have single and group pvp and players could watch from above on the walls.

 

I am sure there will be structures within the EKs that can be built and used for fighting but I do not see why ACE would not support the player base interested in this type of play with match making, small scale arena maps, and spectator modes.

 

Lopar

The Cult

Edited by Furyk

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I do not see why ACE would not support the player base interested in this type of play with match making, small scale arena maps, and spectator modes.

 

Opportunity cost. All dev time invested in arena features is time not spent on making the campaign core loop better.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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There are times for everything.

For your suggestions as well, you can talk about these after release.

But now its the time to develop the game, which will change the dark age of MMO/online gaming, 

which is Crowfall going to be.

Maybe with a few others together, as part of a new generation of MMO-gaming.

The step into a new era is around the corner, so exciting!!   :)

Finally really someone is giving it a try, and it looks great so far.

And of course its not a huge capitalistic corporation, but small till mid-sized independent companys, which are the lords of themselves, together witch a big public audience/crowd.

Its gonna be a major point in history, this here right now. A reversal point, bringing the good old golden days of gaming back to us, which were stolen by capitalism for far too long.


After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Opportunity cost. All dev time invested in arena features is time not spent on making the campaign core loop better.

 

I understand where you are coming from in regards to the opportunity cost of investing in one aspect of the game taking away resources from another area of importance, but it seems many of the basic functions for arena matches currently exist with the Hunger Dome. The few exceptions would be a ranking system, the ability to match up teams based on rank, and a spectator mode.

 

Obviously I have no idea how much effort it would take to develop those systems but I guess we can just agree to disagree on this one.

 

Lopar

The Cult

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I understand where you are coming from in regards to the opportunity cost of investing in one aspect of the game taking away resources from another area of importance, but it seems many of the basic functions for arena matches currently exist with the Hunger Dome. The few exceptions would be a ranking system, the ability to match up teams based on rank, and a spectator mode.

 

Obviously I have no idea how much effort it would take to develop those systems but I guess we can just agree to disagree on this one.

 

Lopar

The Cult

 

Hello sir

I dont know about that either.

But from looking at games like Gigantic, Battleborn, Paladins, Overwatch, Bierzerkers or Orcs must die unchained, which are exactly what you described (Arena Third person Moba), and how long these games are taking for development, it seems to be a very big effort.

Of course I am asking myself too, why these arena games are taking this much time to develop, or why they are now suddenly coming out of the blue all together at the same moment, or why it should be so hard to develop these games when on my Nintendo 64 and Gamecube almost every game had such an local Multiplayer mode.

Ok, games are harder to develop these days and are more expensive to develop? I dont know, but I dont think thats totally true or all of the truth.

Gaming industry changed? Yeah thats for sure. But really not to the better in my opinion.

Back then people in the gaming industry were making games as a passion, not as a job to make money. But then capitalism noticed that you can make a bunch of money with games, and totally changed the gaming industry.

Thats why i came to like ACE


After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Esports is total garbage, and hopefully CF doesn't pander to that BS. Besides CF is way outside of the scope of what would constitute a spectator friendly game.

 

 

 

I find it strange so many of you are against an arena gameplay mode in Crowfall. I really don't care if they try to attract the eSports crowd or not but I do hope they put in some kind of arena format. The maps should be small and fairly symmetrical made for a few small teams.

 

Basically we already got a bunch different PvP Formats: FFA, GvG, FvF, etc. The community will already be stretched thin between all these different play types. Introducing another which doesn't necessary fit inside the "scope" of the game (which is large battles, territorial conquest, and tea-bagging) will just stretch the community even thinner. Plus you now you gotta balance the game in to boredom, since arena players are some of the whiniest bitches in gaming. A good example of this is GW2. WvW was fun but broken and SPVP was complete ass and lacked fundamental features.

 

Balancing archetypes /abilities for one format might hurt them on others. Unless you create an instance of each ability and separate them between the arena and the worlds. That's A LOT of work. You've basically DOUBLED the amount of abilities the devs have to contend with.

 

The arena would almost be a separate game in itself and I think the devs are better of focusing on open world pvp. I'd rather have fully developed and fun open world pvp over a mediocre experience because they crow-barred an arena in.

Edited by helix

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When a campaign takes months....who the hell is going to watch it.

This is not League of Legends......stop trying to turn it into that!!! Besides, who the hell watches other people play video games, when you can play themselves??

 

Edited by Agravenn
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Besides, who the hell watches other people play video games, when you can play themselves??

 

 

 

 

Hum...I don't know...maybe the 33 million people who regularly watch other people stream games on Twitch. Link to stats: https://www.quantcast.com/twitch.tv Because you do not care to watch does not mean it is irrelevant. I watched the Crowfall stream (aka multi-team arena matches)  last night and it was great. 

 

Putting arenas in Crowfall does not make it a MOBA. It does not destroy the rest of the game or make conquests and open world PvP mediocre by default. It is a slim possibility I guess, but a well done arena system is not mutually exclusive to a great experience within a Crowfall campaign world. It's all PVP you're just changing the box. 

 

It's like arguing ACE must NOT develop training dummies for EK guild garrisons because it will make newbie MOBs in the campaign world pointless. Will it? We all can speculate but none of us know for sure. Just like most of our arguments here this is all pure conjecture with no basis in fact.

 

I told myself I was done posting in this thread as I feel the discussion is devolving into something no longer constructive, but I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. =)

 

Lopar

The Cult

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