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Regarding new combat footage and camera...


VIKINGNAIL
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I noticed that people could be running one direction with their reticle facing behind them.... I personally think that once you are in combat your camera should lock and should always be facing the direction you are going.  I don't mind the rotating camera when you are out of combat but I feel it makes combat much more skillful when you aren't able to free look all around you like I saw in some gameplay videos while fighting. 

 

What do you guys think?

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I know that video games shouldn't always conform to real life, but in real life I can move in one direction and look in another by turning my head. I hate not being able to move the camera independently of my character.

 

That being said, I would have no problem with a limited field of view. Perhaps we can only turn the camera 45-90 degrees to either side while moving. That way we can't see what is behind us unless we turn around.

Edited by Arkade
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I think good players with mouse cycles to spare will have better situational awareness than those who don't bother to or can't afford to look around, and I think that asking for the mechanical skill cap to be reduced in the name of making the game more skillful is hilarious.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I think good players with mouse cycles to spare will have better situational awareness than those who don't bother to or can't afford to look around, and I think that asking for the mechanical skill cap to be reduced in the name of making the game more skillful is hilarious.

This has nothing to do with a mechanical skill cap... this is related to situational awareness.  It's basically similar to the argument of first person vs zoomed out third person.  Should it be so easy to see everything going on around you? 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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The issue will probably arise that you can see around impassable places and possibly aim there to.  If someone is blocking a doorway you can swing your camera around into the room and aim regardless of physical orientation I noticed from the stream yesterday.  This opens up a lot of physic problems with the chain mechanic already.

 

It's pretty early so I assume that their camera mechanics are still fairly infant.

Edited by facerip
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This has nothing to do with a mechanical skill cap... this is related to situational awareness.  It's basically similar to the argument of first person vs zoomed out third person.  Should it be so easy to see everything going on around you?

 

3rd person zoom: passive, unskilled. Information is available to any player with no effort.

 

Camera free look: active, skilled. Information is only available to players who make the effort to acquire it. Better players can look around while doing other useful things simultaneously; uncoordinated players must stop other activities or become less effective at them in order to look around.

 

The two scenarios are as analogous as playing Quarterback is to watching the game on TV.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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3rd person zoom: passive, unskilled. Information is available to any player with no effort.

 

Camera free look: active, skilled. Information is only available to players who make the effort to acquire it. Better players can look around while doing other useful things simultaneously; uncoordinated players must stop other activities or become less effective at them in order to look around.

 

The two scenarios are as analogous as playing Quarterback is to watching the game on TV.

I understand what you are trying to say, but it just isn't as big a skill thing as you are trying to make it out to be.

 

It requires much less skill and awareness of your surroundings when you can look all around you so easily. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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3rd person zoom: passive, unskilled. Information is available to any player with no effort.

 

Camera free look: active, skilled. Information is only available to players who make the effort to acquire it. Better players can look around while doing other useful things simultaneously; uncoordinated players must stop other activities or become less effective at them in order to look around.

 

The two scenarios are as analogous as playing Quarterback is to watching the game on TV.

While I agree there is a bit more skill involved this way for a single person; watching the footage and the way the camera moves makes this game feel a little dated. I wouldn't be against locking the camera similar to Smite because it opens up more situations where you don't see someone coming. And rely on communication a little more(which increases team skill).

 

Everything the player can interact with is a big deal and is totally worth discussion. I personally don't like the camera the way it is.

-Red

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The simple option is the have mouse look on a toggle, you must be physically inline to aim and action, but you are free to look around when you decide to. 

 

Having the ability to aim and execute actions independent from character orientation allows you to do things otherwise impossible, ie shoot from positions that you cannot be attacked back from.

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Having the ability to aim and execute actions independent from character orientation allows you to do things otherwise impossible, ie shoot from positions that you cannot be attacked back from.

 

The characters appear to have some degree of turn speed. Also from my understanding of projectiles in this game and with them being physical objects I don't think this will be that much of an issue.

 

I don't think we're going to have a Call of Duty headglitch situtation where you shoot bullets out of your eyes from behind a rock.

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The characters appear to have some degree of turn speed. Also from my understanding of projectiles in this game and with them being physical objects I don't think this will be that much of an issue.

 

I don't think we're going to have a Call of Duty headglitch situtation where you shoot bullets out of your eyes from behind a rock.

 

 

The problem exists in the phyisical origin of the action not really the animation.  Having a multi-staged camera puts a lot of complication in line of sight checks for a non FPS perspective using FPS mechanics.  I guess time will tell when more people have access to the game in general.

 

I just hope they are creative in their solutions to line of sight issues especially basic ones like environmental positioning.

Edited by facerip
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I'll note in addition that making it harder to see what's behind you creates additional advantage and incentive for maphackers.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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So your anti-hacker game design strategy is pretend they don't exist? I don't imagine ACE will embrace that philosophy after Shadowbane...

 

Designing your game in such a way that legitimate players have access to the same level of information that cheaters do is just common sense in today's gaming industry. If you create a massive information divide between cheaters and your main player base, those two groups will tend to collapse into one.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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So your anti-hacker game design strategy is pretend they don't exist? I don't imagine ACE will embrace that philosophy after Shadowbane...

 

Designing your game in such a way that legitimate players have access to the same level of information that cheaters do is just common sense in today's gaming industry. If you create a massive information divide between cheaters and your main player base, those two groups will tend to collapse into one.

No... you don't design your game so that cheaters and regular players have the same level of information... that's like designing an RTS with full map vision off the bat.... or an FPS with wall hacks enabled....

 

You don't pretend hackers don't exist... that's what anti-cheats are for... you just don't bend to their will....

 

Your argument is weak...

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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The simple option is the have mouse look on a toggle, you must be physically inline to aim and action, but you are free to look around when you decide to. 

 

Umm... Isn't this how it exactly works in Crowfall? Quoting Todd:

 

- You can swap between Targeting Mode and Mouse Mode any time using the [ALT] key.  This even works in Death Camera mode, so that you can use Targeting Mode to get a better view of the action.

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I'm constantly surprised by how many people confuse "I don't have the technical background to competently evaluate your argument" with "your argument is weak".

 

Security onion.

 

Anti-cheat is just one layer.

 

Reducing motivation is another.

 

Obviously you don't compromise core features for the sake of security.

 

Just as obviously, locked camera is not considered a Crowfall core feature.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I'm constantly surprised by how many people confuse "I don't have the technical background to competently evaluate your argument" with "your argument is weak".

 

Security onion.

 

Anti-cheat is just one layer.

 

Reducing motivation is another.

 

Obviously you don't compromise core features for the sake of security.

 

Just as obviously, locked camera is not considered a Crowfall core feature.

Combat is considered a core feature.... the camera is an important part of combat... what you do with that camera influences the feel of your combat.... Also making combat take skill is important as many people would agree... giving people easy information always takes from the skill of awareness...

 

It has nothing to do with technical background, your argument is weak...

 

Saying stuff like:

 

"Designing your game in such a way that legitimate players have access to the same level of information that cheaters do is just common sense in today's gaming industry." 

 

Doesn't actually add up with how games are designed...  I've given you examples of what very popular and competitive genres would be like if you gave legitimate players the same information as cheaters...  They are also clear examples that in today's gaming industry they do not design games to give cheaters and legit players the same level of information. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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