VIKINGNAIL

Regarding new combat footage and camera...

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Adding strafe and backpedal animations to the work pile would be a little bit of a setback, but I think it would pay off gameplay-wise. My vote is lock character facing to camera facing, and make strafing and backpedaling slower than running forward. There has already been enough Smite mentions (and I'm sick of the game anyway) so I won't throw in more stories. It's the only way to make "backstab" style abilities feasible too.

 

For bonus points, certain archetypes could have different speeds in different directions. A centaur legionnaire, for example, could have faster forward movement than other archetypes but slower side movement. I don't know that I've ever seen a horse step sideways, but they sure move forward fast enough.

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3rd person zoom: passive, unskilled. Information is available to any player with no effort.

 

Camera free look: active, skilled. Information is only available to players who make the effort to acquire it. Better players can look around while doing other useful things simultaneously; uncoordinated players must stop other activities or become less effective at them in order to look around.

 

The two scenarios are as analogous as playing Quarterback is to watching the game on TV.

 

I'm in agreement with the philosophy of the other poster.

 

You can't equate the suggestion to "making things easier" in the OPs post.  It amounts to a design suggestion that presents a certain skill dynamic  versus the ability to spin your head around like Linda Blair.

 

Either way, you either skill up or fall short.  Apple meet Orange.  Both fruit . . . adapt or die.

 

Limited field of vision calibrated to simulate what happens with us as humans fits the scenario and character models, and so is not objectionable IMO. 

 

"Camera free look" is convenient and does make rapid viewing of your surroundings easier, thus it's attraction, and not a problem for me personally.  What I disagree with is the assessment it automatically equates to a more skilled mode of play, "l33t-mode", which it isn't.  Again, see Apples and Oranges above. 

Edited by Bramble

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I noticed that people could be running one direction with their reticle facing behind them.... I personally think that once you are in combat your camera should lock and should always be facing the direction you are going.  I don't mind the rotating camera when you are out of combat but I feel it makes combat much more skillful when you aren't able to free look all around you like I saw in some gameplay videos while fighting. 

 

What do you guys think?

i share the same opinion. tho id even prefer FPV over this locked 3rd person cam... but they said they will not change 3rd person so id like to see locked forward 3rd person cam

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i share the same opinion. tho id even prefer FPV over this locked 3rd person cam... but they said they will not change 3rd person so id like to see locked forward 3rd person cam

Ya i'd prefer first person as well it creates a much more immersive experience but so many games avoid it cause it de-emphasizes cosmetics, gives some people motion sickness, higher skill-ceiling... etc...

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So your anti-hacker game design strategy is pretend they don't exist? I don't imagine ACE will embrace that philosophy after Shadowbane...

 

Designing your game in such a way that legitimate players have access to the same level of information that cheaters do is just common sense in today's gaming industry. If you create a massive information divide between cheaters and your main player base, those two groups will tend to collapse into one.

 

No... you don't design your game so that cheaters and regular players have the same level of information... that's like designing an RTS with full map vision off the bat.... or an FPS with wall hacks enabled....

 

You don't pretend hackers don't exist... that's what anti-cheats are for... you just don't bend to their will....

 

Your argument is weak...

 

Combat is considered a core feature.... the camera is an important part of combat... what you do with that camera influences the feel of your combat.... Also making combat take skill is important as many people would agree... giving people easy information always takes from the skill of awareness...

 

It has nothing to do with technical background, your argument is weak...

 

Saying stuff like:

 

"Designing your game in such a way that legitimate players have access to the same level of information that cheaters do is just common sense in today's gaming industry." 

 

Doesn't actually add up with how games are designed...  I've given you examples of what very popular and competitive genres would be like if you gave legitimate players the same information as cheaters...  They are also clear examples that in today's gaming industry they do not design games to give cheaters and legit players the same level of information. 

If you don't like cheaters, I do recommend this for server side anti-cheat.

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I don't mind the DCUO style of movement.

 

The camera would work the same either way.  The only difference is the illusion created by what the model is doing on the screen.  It's not as though you're simultaneously seeing PIP behind your character while facing a direction. 

 

The only way I'd be more in favor of the "camera lock" in combat would be if the strafing and backward movement was slowed down compared to moving forward.  Otherwise it's just a difference in which illusion you preferred to see on your screen.

Edited by mourne

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gives some people motion sickness

 

I have this problem unfortunately so I stick to pvp games with 3rd person or Top Down view. 

 

I do like having flexibility with a zoom scroll so that I can get a closer view for small skirmishes or zoom way out and get the full "Lord of the Rings" view of a castle siege with armies smashing into each other. Seems like if you lock camera but don't restrict zoom, might as well unlock it :P

Edited by miraluna

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After actually getting to play (stopped the camera spinning glitch) today, I am in complete favor with locking the camera/mouselook to the character.  I no longer like being able to spin the camera around the character.

 

I suppose a compromise would be allowing the camera to rotate when not in combat, but snapping to a locked position when entering combat.

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It adds a higher requirement for situational awareness.  Compare first person to third person with a close camera to third person with a really zoomed out camera... first person requires the most situational awareness, third person close camera the next, third person zoomed out camera the least. 

 

Being able to rotate your camera around is something you commonly see in third person games... but it makes it really easy to see what is going on all around you. 

 

TERA's camera works something similar to this one but it worked pretty well there. You couldn't really look around behind you or anything because in combat all of your attacks went in the direction of the reticule, so if you're fighting you're always looking forward. Your character could move sideways or turn around and run the other direction (S key) without the camera changing direction, but the moment you used a skill you were turned back around. It only helped you with in combat movement and not for actually seeing anything else around you. So there was no free camera look happening unless you were standing still. The argument of it allowing you to see everything doesn't really work unless the person is standing around doing nothing, in which case they'll be able to see all around no matter what the camera is setup to do.

 

You can already see that in some of the Crowfall streams. People are mid combat fighting somebody and get hit from behind because they can't see what's going on behind them. Or I've seen people get trampled by Centaurs coming from the side that they couldn't see.

 

 

Adding strafe and backpedal animations to the work pile would be a little bit of a setback, but I think it would pay off gameplay-wise. My vote is lock character facing to camera facing, and make strafing and backpedaling slower than running forward. There has already been enough Smite mentions (and I'm sick of the game anyway) so I won't throw in more stories. It's the only way to make "backstab" style abilities feasible too.

 

For bonus points, certain archetypes could have different speeds in different directions. A centaur legionnaire, for example, could have faster forward movement than other archetypes but slower side movement. I don't know that I've ever seen a horse step sideways, but they sure move forward fast enough.

 

TERA has a similar thing that Crowfall is doing where your character turns 180 and runs towards the camera when pressing S instead of backpedaling. But in that game players did a lot more damage when attacking from behind, so while it was useful for running away, you also put yourself at risk for getting smashed. They could do something similar here since they already have that turn around animation on the S key and save themselves the work of adding in a backpedal animation. Personally I prefer the turn around thing they already have.

 

Edit: Now that I'm not half asleep I thought of something else. I should note on the running away bit, TERA's in combat movement speed was considerably slower (not to be confused with attack speed). So it's not like here where you see people in the HD running at full speed away from a fight. It was difficult to actually get someone off your tail in TERA, so the S turn feature wasn't bad at all. So big difference there in how it worked. No need for a backpedal. Could work similarly here.

Edited by Leiloni

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