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VIKINGNAIL

Regarding new combat footage and camera...

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i'm not getting what locking the camera adds to gameplay?

 

to get the 'sneak up' factor, i would assume they'd be able to put in character detection checks based on incoming toon direction, equipment being worn, etc. you could mouselook all you wanted, but unless you were actually facing the right direction, you wouldn't 'see' them.

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i'm not getting what locking the camera adds to gameplay?

 

to get the 'sneak up' factor, i would assume they'd be able to put in character detection checks based on incoming toon direction, equipment being worn, etc. you could mouselook all you wanted, but unless you were actually facing the right direction, you wouldn't 'see' them.

It adds a higher requirement for situational awareness.  Compare first person to third person with a close camera to third person with a really zoomed out camera... first person requires the most situational awareness, third person close camera the next, third person zoomed out camera the least. 

 

Being able to rotate your camera around is something you commonly see in third person games... but it makes it really easy to see what is going on all around you. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I noticed that people could be running one direction with their reticle facing behind them.... I personally think that once you are in combat your camera should lock and should always be facing the direction you are going.  I don't mind the rotating camera when you are out of combat but I feel it makes combat much more skillful when you aren't able to free look all around you like I saw in some gameplay videos while fighting. 

 

What do you guys think?

The only concern I could see here is motion sickness, but allowing for some versatility in the camera rotation should fix that right up.(As some others have suggested. perhaps 45-90 degrees. It could be too much or too little, its something that needs a lot of iteration)

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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It adds a higher requirement for situational awareness.  Compare first person to third person with a close camera to third person with a really zoomed out camera... first person requires the most situational awareness, third person close camera the next, third person zoomed out camera the least. 

 

Being able to rotate your camera around is something you commonly see in third person games... but it makes it really easy to see what is going on all around you. 

 

Yes, i am very aware of the various camera perspectives and how they are perceived to impact gameplay.

 

The question wasn't why you like a locked camera option, the question was, what does it add to gameplay?

 

that it 'adds a higher requirement for situational awareness' is a) debatable (again, you could have the camera perspective be completely independent of when the toon 'sees' a target and B) doesn't explain how it adds to gameplay...which at least in my brain translates to making it more fun.

 

Personally i like the isometric tactical view (ie. total war series) because it bridges the (gameplay) tactical gap of eyeballs on the field + map in hand. I think it's intuitive (ie. easy) for folks to grasp, so players can get on to playing the game, and not have the first battle they fight be fighting the camera.

 

While i know that having mad camera skills is a pretty awesome ability....i just don't think it actually adds much to the fun factor.

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Yes, i am very aware of the various camera perspectives and how they are perceived to impact gameplay.

 

The question wasn't why you like a locked camera option, the question was, what does it add to gameplay?

 

that it 'adds a higher requirement for situational awareness' is a) debatable (again, you could have the camera perspective be completely independent of when the toon 'sees' a target and B) doesn't explain how it adds to gameplay...which at least in my brain translates to making it more fun.

 

Personally i like the isometric tactical view (ie. total war series) because it bridges the (gameplay) tactical gap of eyeballs on the field + map in hand. I think it's intuitive (ie. easy) for folks to grasp, so players can get on to playing the game, and not have the first battle they fight be fighting the camera.

 

While i know that having mad camera skills is a pretty awesome ability....i just don't think it actually adds much to the fun factor.

It adds another layer of yomi.... not being able to see all around you at all times means you must read into what is going on around you without absolutely free and easy proof of what is going on around you.

 

Spinning a camera around is generally pretty easy, it gives you very clear information as to what is going on around you...  This is why you don't really see third person shooters at the top of competitive gaming, because it simply takes less skill when you are given too much information for free... compared to first person where players really have to develop a real game sense to understand everything going on around them, whether they can visually see it or not. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I wouldn't mind having a camera lock like Smite has. I've played Smite a TON and if I was able to swing the camera around while being chased, it would be so much easier to survive and a little unfair to the pursuer. In smite right now, here's what happens. You get ganked and you have to run. You turn around and start to run, and you can't see behind you unless you turn around which slows you down, so you have to juke to the left and right to try to avoid skillshots that you can't see. You can tell a good player from a bad player by how they juke skillshots blind.

 

I remember in WoW on my rogue I'd be running away from a warlock for example, I'd swing my camera around while running, so I could see the moment he would cast death coil, I could vanish and block it. If my camera was locked behind me, I wouldn't have that information if I was running away.

 

However, being an MMO, I'd also like to be able to swing the camera around to take screenshots. So if there can be a camera lock with that functionality, I'm all for it.

Edited by Jon

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I wouldn't mind having a camera lock like Smite has. I've played Smite a TON and if I was able to swing the camera around while being chased, it would be so much easier to survive and a little unfair to the pursuer. In smite right now, here's what happens. You get ganked and you have to run. You turn around and start to run, and you can't see behind you unless you turn around which slows you down, so you have to juke to the left and right to try to avoid skillshots that you can't see. You can tell a good player from a bad player by how they juke skillshots blind.

 

I remember in WoW on my rogue I'd be running away from a warlock for example, I'd swing my camera around while running, so I could see the moment he would cast death coil, I could vanish and block it. If my camera was locked behind me, I wouldn't have that information if I was running away.

 

However, being an MMO, I'd also like to be able to swing the camera around to take screenshots. So if there can be a camera lock with that functionality, I'm all for it.

Yea it takes much more intuition and understanding of player behavior to be able to juke people without absolute vision on what they are doing. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Yea it takes much more intuition and understanding of player behavior to be able to juke people without absolute vision on what they are doing. 

Yes! Exactly that. If you watch a high ranked player in Smite, just watching how they juke abilities without even seeing. I wish I knew something up off the top of my head so I could link a twitch vod, but just relying on sound and intuition rather than being able to see absolutely everything.

 

For example, Hercules in Smite has an ability where he grabs you from a range and pulls you into him. If a Hercules is chasing you, and you hear that sound that the pull ability makes, you can move to the side quickly and dodge it.

 

Would be fantastic if this game had things like that. Imagine running away and dodging a knight's chain that would pull you into certain death. Would feel much more satisfying if it was a difficult feat to accomplish.

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Yes! Exactly that. If you watch a high ranked player in Smite, just watching how they juke abilities without even seeing. I wish I knew something up off the top of my head so I could link a twitch vod, but just relying on sound and intuition rather than being able to see absolutely everything.

 

For example, Hercules in Smite has an ability where he grabs you from a range and pulls you into him. If a Hercules is chasing you, and you hear that sound that the pull ability makes, you can move to the side quickly and dodge it.

 

Would be fantastic if this game had things like that. Imagine running away and dodging a knight's chain that would pull you into certain death. Would feel much more satisfying if it was a difficult feat to accomplish.

Yep  at that point you gotta know the capabilities of the champions that are chasing you, and how they are likely to time and aim their kits at you while chasing, then you have to factor all of that in real time to come up with the best movement pattern to not get caught....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It adds another layer of yomi.... not being able to see all around you at all times means you must read into what is going on around you without absolutely free and easy proof of what is going on around you.

 

Spinning a camera around is generally pretty easy, it gives you very clear information as to what is going on around you...  This is why you don't really see third person shooters at the top of competitive gaming, because it simply takes less skill when you are given too much information for free... compared to first person where players really have to develop a real game sense to understand everything going on around them, whether they can visually see it or not. 

 

you're really hung up on the whole 'takes more skill' part.

 

yes spinning the camera isn't hard. somewhat annoying? yeah.

 

Does having to spin the camera to 'actively' maintain a level of situational awareness that i might have in a 3rd person make the game more fun? I would say no...i mean yay you can spin your camera! l337.  I would say that it actually detracts from gameplay, especially in a group setting, as your pov is pretty limited to what your doing/worried about...and you can't really see your buddy pwning face a bit down the hill from you...especially because you'll be spinning your camera, hence not really able to enjoy anything besides what you're focused on.

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you're really hung up on the whole 'takes more skill' part.

 

yes spinning the camera isn't hard. somewhat annoying? yeah.

 

Does having to spin the camera to 'actively' maintain a level of situational awareness that i might have in a 3rd person make the game more fun? I would say no...i mean yay you can spin your camera! l337.  I would say that it actually detracts from gameplay, especially in a group setting, as your pov is pretty limited to what your doing/worried about...and you can't really see your buddy pwning face a bit down the hill from you...especially because you'll be spinning your camera, hence not really able to enjoy anything besides what you're focused on.

 

 

I don't think you understand the actual point of contention in this thread.  It's not about spinning your camera around, it's the ability to conduct actions in the direction your POV is faced vs your character's physical position and orientation.

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While I wouldn't mind it being locked and similar to Smite (wouldn't mind combat in general being like Smite), either way those that can will be better off than those that can't.

 

I want CF to allow "skill" to matter, but at the same time I don't want the ceiling to be eSport high end competitive where the level of accessibility drops dramatically when opposing sides aren't remotely equal.

 

While they are going with action/aimed combat, the focus seems to be much more on team based tactics and not individual manual mastery.

 

They mention "fun" quite a lot and unfortunately for some folks, that doesn't always revolve around allowing their personal "skill" to be tested fully. 

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I have no problem with spinning the camera angle while in combat. If you do this while trying to attack, you'll miss alot. It really only helps when trying to see behind you while being chased, so maybe just lock it while sprinting. Pretty sure I can run at a moderate pace and look over my shoulder, brb RL camera testing.

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I'm assuming they'll adjust it, it is pre-alpha after all. Currently even for what it is, the camera seems to be a bit all over the place in certain areas around objects/buildings/players, but that might be the players themselves getting used to it. To me it looks like a disadvantage if you don't have a handle on it for any help it might provide.

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