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evade2015

Amazing job so far... But combat = le sigh

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While I can't speak for him, I'm assuming he prefers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjN4075cdfs type of action. Which is fine, but has no place nor fits what ACE is attempted to build.

 

Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvn9XJvUKpA, but I get your point. I had just assumed anyone that was familiar with animation locking combat system's would have realized that you simply don't use an ability if it has an undesirable movement characteristic for the given situation.

 

Kind of like how you wouldn't use a charge ability in WoW if you didn't want to get closer to your opponent.

Edited by Raizex

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I'd also like to point out that GW2 also has some animation locking as well. Most movement skills such as charge or ride the lightning don't allow you to move or perform actions while the animation was being played.

 

D/D Elementalist had a bit more of these abilities than most, and I think people who are familiar with playing it will know what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q91vCHaLjY.

Edited by Raizex

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I'd also like to point out that GW2 also has some animation locking as well. Most movement skills such as charge or ride the lightning don't allow you to move or perform actions while the animation was being played.

 

D/D Elementalist had a bit more of these abilities than most, and I think people who are familiar with playing it will know what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q91vCHaLjY.

Damn. Rough to watch videos like this. I know it wasn't your point to talk about his skill or anything, but his opponents were trash. I prefer videos like this where the opponent knows what they're doing. The enemies in that video had absolutely no chance.

 

You can see the warrior uses an ability that roots him at 0:19.

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I'd also like to point out that GW2 also has some animation locking as well. Most movement skills such as charge or ride the lightning don't allow you to move or perform actions while the animation was being played.

 

D/D Elementalist had a bit more of these abilities than most, and I think people who are familiar with playing it will know what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q91vCHaLjY.

 

I don't mind animation locks when it comes to displacement type abilities (dashes, leaps and the such). However animation locks for standard attacks irk me, and abilities like hundred blades (where you frenzy on a target) need a good setup in pvp, and have a large pay off. It's worth to note that you can use another ability to cancel out of hundred blades, so you're not just stuck there getting wrecked.

 

Combat in crowfall currently has little room for adaptation. You make a choice and you're stuck with it.

 

We'll have to wait and see what combat is like in the next iteration. I don't expect them to remove animation lock completely, but there are skills that could use it logically, and others that don't necessary need it. Right now combat feels far too static and slow.

Edited by helix

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I'm also interested to see what FF will be like in this game, I have a feeling they'll have to scrap that idea (or greatly reduce the amount of damage you take from splash) after playing and seeing the confessor in action. FF will be a hot topic in the coming months, and a focus point for a boat load of potential frustration if not implemented correctly.

 

https://youtu.be/7tM-wgB1qWU?t=41m47s

 

One of the guys on the panel actually brings up a good point, about how FF could totally ruin aoe focused classes.

 

Finally some more people are starting to use their brains and think about Friendly Fire from a logistical standpoint rather than the "SUPER HARDCORE" Dregs circlejerk that's been out in full force on these forums.

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Combat in crowfall is also revolving around the hunger dome ruleset right now... I doubt ACE plans for the best players to just run around like chickens with their heads cut off.  If FF is a huge issue, you learn to fight certain ways to circumnavigate it.

 

FF changes the way you play with AOE, it doesn't make it useless though, it just requires more coordination and thought on where you drop it. 
 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Finally some more people are starting to use their brains and think about Friendly Fire from a logistical standpoint rather than the "SUPER HARDCORE" Dregs circlejerk that's been out in full force on these forums.

 

let me help you out here.

 

Dont stand in your friends AoE.

 

See, not so HC Dregs 1337 tactic afterall.

FF requires a little logic and thought about position. And not running into your own guilds AoE.

 

What I am saying is, FF will weed out the baddies and carebears.

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let me help you out here.

 

Dont stand in your friends AoE.

 

See, not so HC Dregs 1337 tactic afterall.

FF requires a little logic and thought about position. And not running into your own guilds AoE.

 

What I am saying is, FF will weed out the baddies and carebears.

 

Until you realize that MMO's rely heavily on lag compensation and server side PREDICTION. They're usually set up to where the attacker has the advantage over the potential target (which is why you normally have to preemptively dodge something rather than reactively do it). This works fine in most games because people would much rather have the game feel smooth and for their attacks to hit consistently. Friendly Fire is going to turn into a lot of "Dude you were nowhere near there on my screen!"

 

Ranged also has a massive advantage when it comes to Friendly Fire. Not only do they not have to worry about being hit by it as much but also if you make a party full of ranged you'll have very little issues hitting your teammates with friendly fire.

 

Everyone has such huge massive epeens and think they're going to be playing in the most coordinated groups of all time without any interference from random players or latency. I'll be pretty shocked if true friendly fire makes it into most of the game types. I think it's pretty likely that it will be gutted and have a pretty severe handicap to where it's pretty hard to hit your own teammate or that the damage is reduced.

 

Also friendly fire will lead to a lot of people just not taking certain archetypes. Why the hell would I want to play a giant melee archetype that's constantly going to be pelted by friendly fire when I can play a ranged class and not have to worry about it at all?

Edited by Zybak

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Everyone has such huge massive epeens and think they're going to be playing in the most coordinated groups of all time without any interference from random players or latency. I'll be pretty shocked if true friendly fire makes it into most of the game types. I think it's pretty likely that it will be gutted and have a pretty severe handicap to where it's pretty hard to hit your own teammate or that the damage is reduced.

 

 

The beauty of the ruleset system, we can have FF in the dregs and finally get a challenging PvP game.

And the casuals can stay away from the dregs and not have to worry about where they aim.

 

Its actually pretty simple. Its not about epeens, its about finally getting a game where you have to do some work and not mindlessly fire off the same rotation every fight with cookiecutter builds (looking at you WoW)

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The beauty of the ruleset system, we can have FF in the dregs and finally get a challenging PvP game.

 

You could even enable or disable FF in The Dregs in different campaigns. Want FF? Go play in campaign A. Don't want it? Play in campaign B.


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You could even enable or disable FF in The Dregs in different campaigns. Want FF? Go play in campaign A. Don't want it? Play in campaign B.

 

 

yep, thats why I backed this game.

people wanting a challenge can play without interference from casuals saying the game is too difficult.

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let me help you out here.

 

Dont stand in your friends AoE.

 

See, not so HC Dregs 1337 tactic afterall.

FF requires a little logic and thought about position. And not running into your own guilds AoE.

 

What I am saying is, FF will weed out the baddies and carebears.

 

Watching the streams, I'm not seeing how two melee could attack a target without killing each other as well. Not to mention range backing them up.

 

Sure play smart and don't stand in the molten lava field, but basic attacks and combat itself seem to take place in a very small space.

 

Which can work if the game revolved around 3 vs 3 or whatever, but get 10, 50, 100 people or more in a battle and it's going to get messy quickly.

 

I want FF to work, but with what they've shown, looks more than a little tricky. 

 

You can be the bestest player in the whole world, still have to work with the limitations of the system.

 

Ex: 4 large melee surround medium target, range is not going to be playing unless the "pills" or angle of projectiles allow for attacks to magically go up and over friendlies and down to the target. Which might not be a big deal as 4 vs 1, it's already over, but it could leave a lot of situations where people aren't able to actually participate.

Edited by allein

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You could even enable or disable FF in The Dregs in different campaigns. Want FF? Go play in campaign A. Don't want it? Play in campaign B.

 

Yep, that's the magic of Crowfall. I don't mind friendly being a thing in some campaigns. I just don't want them balancing the game around it at this point since I really doubt most people are going to find it enjoyable.

Edited by Zybak

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There wont be perfect campaigns for everyone... pls stop pretending like there will be.

 

Players will have to make trade-offs. You cannot please everybody.

 

Solid vanilla campaigns is what they should aim for and not try to cater to "special needs".

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I just don't want them balancing the game around it at this point since I really doubt most people are going to find it enjoyable.

 

I think some people will, but a lot of players won't. Myself? Not sure, I will have to see it in action and experience it myself. What I've seen so far in Crowfall Pre-Alpha it will be problematic and not that easy to solve I think. It's rather easy to hit your team mates as ranged and now the battles are rather small. It will be almost impossible to not hit your fellow melee buddy when you both are hitting the enemy player.


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Combat in crowfall is also revolving around the hunger dome ruleset right now... I doubt ACE plans for the best players to just run around like chickens with their heads cut off.  If FF is a huge issue, you learn to fight certain ways to circumnavigate it.

 

FF changes the way you play with AOE, it doesn't make it useless though, it just requires more coordination and thought on where you drop it. 

 

 

I want FF too, but combat has to accommodate it. Would I want FF with the way combat is now? Most likely not. Combat has to change drastically for FF to be a fun and challenging mechanic, and not a frustrating one which effectively reduces the options for certain archetypes.

 

 

 

Sure play smart and don't stand in the molten lava field, but basic attacks and combat itself seem to take place in a very small space.

 

Even the most basic attack roots you in place, this is what people seem to forget. When you're in the heat of combat, mid swing, you can't just break animation and dodge out. Right now combat is semi-frustrating for melees, part of that is lag, part of that is camera, some might have to do with physics and some of that has to do with animation lock.

 

What we have right now is not action combat, it's faux action combat. Similar to games like Neverwinter and Skyforge.

Edited by helix

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Would you mind pointing out what exactly these sacrifices are and why you don't like them, so that we may better discuss how Crowfall can avoid such mistakes?

 

In FFXIV where console/controller and PC players were integrated in the same game universe, it was always painfully obvious who was using a controller.  They moved and acted much slower in general and it was a detriment to the team.  Skilled knowledgeable players who were playing via console/controller would often apologize in advance for bringing a deficiency.


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In FFXIV where console/controller and PC players were integrated in the same game universe, it was always painfully obvious who was using a controller.  They moved and acted much slower in general and it was a detriment to the team.  Skilled knowledgeable players who were playing via console/controller would often apologize in advance for bringing a deficiency.

 

there are a lot of problems with using a controller in a game where a cursor and a lot of bindings have clear and obvious benefits, and 360 degrees of movement doesn't really help at all.

 

imo there is at least a case to be made for controllers in an action combat game, in a tab targeting one there is none at all

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people wanting a challenge can play without interference from casuals saying the game is too difficult.

 

Not sure why casual, challenge and difficulty level are mutually exclusive things.  I thought casual meant you played less than the hardcore guy?   :lol:   I can be a casual player who desires challenging and difficult content.


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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