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Anonymods: The Thread


checkyotrack

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Are you suggesting that attacking people and blowing up pixels is abuse?

 

some people might.

The same people that claim this forum is toxic.

 

I wonder what will happen when I camp a person for 4 days until he cries and quits the game.

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I wonder what will happen when I camp a person for 4 days until he cries and quits the game.

 

J. Todd Coleman will tell him, "you're a bad player and you need to get better."

 

Not sure what it has to do with anonymods, though.

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this discussion is permitted? Cool.

 

I've always endorsed the idea of anonymods. Except in the few instances where we know who they are and they get flamed on one account and then use their anonymod account to punish. Also, when they start an intro thread on their main account and then say "welcome" to themselves on their anonymod account. Really?

 

Anyhow, anonymod is fine. I don't mind them being secret members of the forums. It probably helps them do their job. However, some common sense should be used. Example:

 

Kickit reports Headlight a bunch of times over the last few months and posts against headlight any chance he gets.

Kickit becomes an anonymod.

Kickit gives headlight warning points any chance he gets.

 

Plain and simple: if a player has ever reported another player -- then that player is hands off when it comes to their anonymod issuing warning points. There's plenty of other anonymods to handle this task. There used to be a professional thing such as removing yourself from an action if you have a conflict of interest. Some of these "pro mods" from other forums can't seem to discern that.

 

Just simple professional courtesies. The moderation has come a long way, but obviously sometimes people krahk it up for everyone else. Some mods do get out of control. I'd honestly like to see the mods themselves apologize for individual actions rather than Pann Jemima taking all the blame for her chillens. Still haven't seen as much janitor, but I don't really pay all that much attention anymore.

 

As for moderator transparency, I've fought that one hard. A friend of mine lost an account fighting xComVic over it. The bottom line is they won't talk about moderator actions on the forums. If you want to talk accountability and transparency over moderator actions, we have an off-site forums that does so (see: sig or profile).

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The problem is that, when it comes to warning points, I simply don't have enough.

You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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If it's foolish to think the anymods will stay anonymous it's probably just as foolish to keep them. I'm not a fan. The best way would have been to create disclaimer based, truly peer moderated forums, and hire independent employees for the others. I am guessing that is the plan for when the game goes live, but it might be too late now since many who cared about overzealous moderation seem to be quite comfortable on external forums. I am not sure if splitting the player base was the intent but it seems to be the outcome.

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Wait till someone attacks you in game or blows up your pixels ... the abuse!!

 

 

 

Oh....

 

 

 

You seem like a kindred spirit. I'm guessing you play EVE and you like ganking high sec miners? 

 

 

 

Isn't that the most abusive bag of insane cats you've ever stuck your hand in? 

 

Typical high sec gank involving a miner or hauler.

 

 

Be all. PewPew you die. You lost everything in the ship. 

 

 

Get an email detailing how they custard hate you and you're going to die and they custarded your mom and you're the vile disgusting discharge of a horse etc and so forth. 

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Only thing I have to say about this forum and it's moderation is .... the game better be good enough to keep me amused.

A decent forum is a huge bonus to any game. I love a forum for it's warts and all, with a few good laughs and liberally spiked with sarcasm.

ACE, taking this drier than old dog biscuits approach, will deter a lot of adult gamers, who have any intelligence.

The CF forum has mutated from fun for the first few months to just plain outright boring as hell. Hence my absence.

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Yeah, I agree on that I had some months absence as well, @Ozzie Maybe some take threads and words too seriously and get easily offended, and with too much word restrictions - it get dull very fast.

 

The worst thing a community can do is coddle the thin-skinned.

I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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I don't mind thin-skinned people... I mind thin-skinned people who believe they are thick-skinned though...

 

Honestly, this must be the first time in 6 months that I agree with you on a topic.

Nothing is worse than carebears pretending to fit in, and then gets salty when things heat up.

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Forget my 2 cents, I'm throwing a handful of change into this convo.

 

I'll start with the OP:

 

-Anonymods seem a pointless, overly beaurocratic exercise to solve a problem this forum never had and removed something this forum needed: accountability of the individual to the community.

-Problems the Anonymods were supposed to solve have not been solved. The trust the community has in community moderation is arguably worse. There is a disconnect between the community and the moderators.

-Moderation still seems to be largely reactionary. General moderation tasks such as thread mergers and general cleaning up are non-existant and the moderation policy seems to just center around controlling player behavior.

 

Accountability should be expected by both sides. Yes, on one hand I do agree that even the anonymod should be held accountable for their actions, that isn't up to the community to decide. That would be the job of the CM. As @Pann manages the volunteer mod-squad, it's of no concern what happens behind the curtains of the forums. The CM I'm sure has reversed decisions of Mods, and has even confirmed decisions of Mods. As community members we need to trust that the job is getting done in a correct and efficient way.

 

On the other hand, every single person that posts on any forum, should ALSO be held accountable. Provoking others and using tip-toed insults isn't very productive. Albeit some of the post range from knee-slapping hilarious to something even an infant would tip it's head in confusion. Purposely challenging Mods and/or the CM in their jobs is a losing battle. Not because they are power-hungry, although I'm sure some Mods are, but because you're only trying to find a way to defeat yourself. There is no gain.

 

This disconnect between the Mods and the community is also two-sided. So in some aspect, I do agree with you. The Mods in general seemed to have focused on posts and who posted them. The general clean up is a bit shoddy. And I personally would like to see Mods get involved with forums, mediate them, even offer solutions. It's not enough to just give WP's to people. Become part of the community Mods, no one knows who you are. 

 

And again with the flip side of the coin. This "disconnect" that people feel, only grows more severe when people just point fingers and blame each other. That goes for both sides, Mods/CM and members alike. I'm not saying everyone needs to agree with each other, nor cater to everyone. But being more civil, professional, or having more poise would go a long way in mending the field between Mods and Members.

 

 

Communities with voluntary membership are absolutely reliant upon trust in governance. The current governance of this community has done anything but earn trust. Instead it is secretive, aloof, and nepotistic.
 

 

This is a very staple point that Pann and Mods should take into consideration. And only furthers my point above. It's just as easy, and hugely more effective, for the Mod team to get involved with posts instead of waiting to ambush with some WP. This isn't meant to be directed at every mod. I have to give the benefit of the doubt that some Mods are doing things well. I don't know who you are, because you probably have less than 10 posts. But speak up, and be efficient. Many gamers love a good Mod. When someone from the CM team goes in game, and has a good rep on their shoulders, people flock to them. We borderline worship them. (not really, but you get what I mean) 

 

I'm sure this thread will probably soon be deleted and anyone posting in it issued wp's... but I'm past the point of caring. The mod teams behavior over the last few months has been utterly deplorable, and has killed any desire I had to continue to participate.

You had a great forum going ACE, that's dead and gone now.

 

And this is an example of poorly helping out the situation. I'm pretty sure Fenrial will still participate in the Forums, especially after it gets cleaned up. But this quote serves a purpose, it highlights that yet another member is agitated with the performance of Moderation and at the same time proves that some members are unwilling to offer any means of mending. 

 

I appreciate your candid feedback. You're correct that there is no simple solution. It is a much different situation when the team is comprised of volunteers rather than paid staff. The screening process is different, their obligations are different and our options for addressing issues where they are concerned is different.

 

Until such a time as we bring paid moderation staff on board, we will continue to follow the anonymod model, rotating them out after a few months, doing more to help bring consistency and clarity, and to prepare and guide them better.

 

I am not foolish enough to believe that they are truly anonymous, but I stand firm in my belief that their personal accounts should not be tied to their 'tours of duty' as moderators. 

 

And there's this. There's a level of professionalism and an uncanny ability to deflect the issues brought up in this post. Was it all the "right" thing to say? I think it is. However back to the interaction with the community topic, and bringing up that trust barrier that divides us. Some insight into your methods would have gone a long way in helping people understand. Even better would have been offering up a sort of acknowledgement to any mistakes or misunderstandings. Instead of distraction and diverting what's happening, own up to some level of accountability. We all know you're human, and everyone makes mistakes. It doesn't even have to be specific, but holding your self publicly accountable for past "oopsies" goes a long way in gaining the trust of the community. Personally as a member of this community, I want to see a CM that's real. I don't want to see a CM that's this glorious untouchable being that has the powers of the cosmos. Am I saying you're power hungry? Eh, it might sound like it, but no. What I'm saying is earn our trust by showing us you're not a robot. Then again, if that goes against what you're getting paid for, then I'd say keep to your job.

 

All that being said. There are people that will continue to post everything from unintelligible blabber to some level of enlightenment that only a celestial being could offer.

 

TL;DR Point being, we are ALL members of this community, and should only strive for it's ultimate success.

 

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As we close up the first round of the Anonymod "regime" it is a good time for this community to have a discussion on their actual viability.

 

A few points from my end-

 

-Anonymods seem a pointless, overly beaurocratic exercise to solve a problem this forum never had and removed something this forum needed: accountability of the individual to the community.

 

I think the moderation changes have helped clean up the forums.  Much better signal to noise ratio... Did anonymods help with this?  I think so.... because for the most part it changes the focus onto what is being moderated instead of who is doing it.  If a mod really messed up, we are all human, but pann showed a willingness to review things and see what happened. 

 

-Problems the Anonymods were supposed to solve have not been solved. The trust the community has in community moderation is arguably worse. There is a disconnect between the community and the moderators.

 

This is incorrect, the trust that some of the community has in community moderation is worse, most people don't have problems with mods and are just here to discuss the game...

 

I also think the "trust" you talk about would have been compromised anyway, because the part of the community that seems to complain most about moderation is the part of the community that wants to create something to complain about with the moderation.  Intentionally testing the rules and then screaming bloody murder when they get moderated.  When you constantly try to challenge authority it generally causes issues with authority, including trust.... but a lot of it is self-inflicted difficulties.   

-Moderation still seems to be largely reactionary. General moderation tasks such as thread mergers and general cleaning up are non-existant and the moderation policy seems to just center around controlling player behavior.

 

Perhaps player behavior is the thing that needs to be controlled most when some are trying to test the rules.

 

This secret cabal of moderators have been quick to try and expose non-existant conspiracies about them happening in Slack and slow to even make a single effort in interacting with the community. This is a problem and we should address it.

 

Don't know what to say to this, a conspiracy theory about a conspiracy theory?

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I think I`ve two reports since I joined the Crowfall forum. One was all about the interweb attacks from China which was CNN worthy news. :rolleyes:

And last weekend I reported the Lantern Watch thread and had it closed for a while - in hope they had to create a new guild thread. But the report was not even serious - I did it out of boredom with a smiley.  :)

 

Well, I admit now that I regret it.. not that I care about the guild, honestly I don`t, and I`ve not read a single word on that LW guild thread since page one.

However, it resulted in another guild guideline restriction so I was sad, and it didn`t accomplish anything at all to be honest. So much for forum drama - just ended with another chapter of the current RoC.

 

Lastly, you don`t find these contents in any other gaming communities, so so - stop your whining!  ^_^

 

  • Maybe forum reports should be transparent just like the CF development? (..just an idea, good or bad?)

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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... Even better would have been offering up a sort of acknowledgement to any mistakes or misunderstandings. Instead of distraction and diverting what's happening, own up to some level of accountability. We all know you're human, and everyone makes mistakes. It doesn't even have to be specific, but holding your self publicly accountable for past "oopsies" goes a long way in gaining the trust of the community.

 

She did acknowledge and apologize several times for mistakes that ACE employees and volunteers have made in the past.

 

 

... Personally as a member of this community, I want to see a CM that's real. I don't want to see a CM that's this glorious untouchable being that has the powers of the cosmos. Am I saying you're power hungry? Eh, it might sound like it, but no. What I'm saying is earn our trust by showing us you're not a robot. Then again, if that goes against what you're getting paid for, then I'd say keep to your job.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw7znWqdOjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0Za64Ccig

 

I'm pretty sure that if you take the time to read her posts, articles and listen to interviews, you'll quickly realize how nice is the person behind the CM.  :)

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I know she's nice. She has helped me out as well. And she has my trust.

 

But the point still stands that someone has to reach out. And staying current with posters or getting involved in some topics really does help out.

 

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