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Helix

Archetype,Specialization,Discipline Ability Pools

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Currently you're allowed to slot 10 abilities to your bar. How many abilities would you like to see in each archetype's ability pool? 20? 30? 40? Where should the devs draw the line? Is access to 10 abilities at a single time enough? Personally I prefer they  increase this to 15, with 5 out of the 15 being archetype / specialization specific.

 

How big should each specialization / discipline ability pool be? My opinion is specializations should be play style defining and should offer a decent abilities to pool from. If we're talking hypothetical here and the average ability pool of an archetype is 20 abilities which you can choose from, a specialization should extend that by 10, and a discipline should extend that by 5.

 

Specialization should be class / play style defining, and disciplines should simply augment those decisions. 

 

Continuing our hypothetical, that would give each archetype to a possible 45 abilities (20 from base archetype, 10 from special, 5 per discipline 3 of which you can have) to choose from (only 10 of which you'll have access to at a time).

 

What does everyone else think? What would you like to see in terms of ability pool options?

Edited by helix

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Keep in mind that while you have 10 slottable keys, along with your RMB, LMB, and C, those 10 keys can have combo chains. From what I've seen so far, most classes have several combo chains with some of those branching into A and B chains. So that's a lot of additional skills hidden in one keybind that you'll be able to use.

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I'm playing a lot of ESO right now (I used to avoid PvP but then I took an arrow to the knee) and finding that the limited number of slots on the bar is frustrating at times when playing solo.  Grouped up I don't find myself reaching for skills then realizing I don't have them slotted as my skill needs are much less diverse in a group.

I think 10 actually works because of the chained skills.  That having been said I'd like to see a toolbar for nonskill items for those that want it.  Pop your horse icon on there, put potions & food for easy access etc.

I think the numbers for abilities are pretty sound - but I might spread them out differently.   15 starter skills, 10 specialization, 10 discipline.  Training up skills will be fairly easy so I don't think that folks will be using only starter skills for very long.   Once a character is built and trained up a bit the fun becomes getting the new skills - which means putting a good chunk of them nearer to the end of the process.

I'm torn between "so many wonnerful skills to choose from and I just want to use them allllllllll!" and "I must meditate for a while and choose between these few but incredibly useful/powerful skills to maximize my options while keeping my strategy sound." as far as how many skillls should be in the pool.

 

 


 


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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With the combo system, and skill tree's, we have a lot more than 10 active skills in total.

 

But I'd like to see variety in skill-customization.. Perhaps with 50-60 different skills to choose from.

It would make specializing your Archetype a lot more fun. 

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as long as it's not limited skillsets I'm fine...

 

but custard that GW system

"meaningful choices" my bottom

 

The GW2 system was BS.

You were forced into only a couple of skills, not very complicated.

 

I want to have a complex skilltree with a lot of choices on how to build your character.

Do you want a trap-based Assassin, or a poison type? Perhaps you'd want a longer stealth duration for spying, but have to sacrifice dmg.

 

All of this makes the game more interesting.

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The GW2 system was BS.

You were forced into only a couple of skills, not very complicated.

 

I want to have a complex skilltree with a lot of choices on how to build your character.

Do you want a trap-based Assassin, or a poison type? Perhaps you'd want a longer stealth duration for spying, but have to sacrifice dmg.

 

All of this makes the game more interesting.

 

GW1 was awesome when it came to that, GW2 was complete busass

Edited by helix

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Keep in mind that while you have 10 slottable keys, along with your RMB, LMB, and C, those 10 keys can have combo chains. From what I've seen so far, most classes have several combo chains with some of those branching into A and B chains. So that's a lot of additional skills hidden in one keybind that you'll be able to use.

 

I would like to see 10 skills/keys total.  No picking-and-choosing.

 

However, selecting your promotion class and disciplines might add to these 10 keys, or add/alter existing combo chains.  I want access to everything my archetype/promotion/discipline allows.


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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I would like to see 10 skills/keys total.  No picking-and-choosing.

 

However, selecting your promotion class and disciplines might add to these 10 keys, or add/alter existing combo chains.  I want access to everything my archetype/promotion/discipline allows.

 

I'll have to strongly disagree.

10 skills total? in an mmo?

 

Are you insane?

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I would like to see 10 skills/keys total.  No picking-and-choosing.

 

However, selecting your promotion class and disciplines might add to these 10 keys, or add/alter existing combo chains.  I want access to everything my archetype/promotion/discipline allows.

 

That sounds really bland. Skyforge does this and it's terrible.

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Guild Wars 1 skill system was really neat in my opinion. While it added a ton of work for the developers to maintain balance, it made the game continually change and grow.

 

Powerful new builds would be dreamt up by players and new metas would come about based on new skills that worked well together. (Are shifting metas a good or bad thing? - interesting discussion to be had.)

 

A single class could have a few different roles in each party with the multi-profession system with multiple attributes. A warrior could focus on doing more damage, more CC, or damage over time. A monk could heal, mitigate damage, or do damage. An elementalist could CC/slow, nuke, debuff/stun, or focus on mitigation.

 

I am extremely excited to see how the archetype/classing/specialization system works in Crowfall. In fact, it has me more excited about this game than I have been for any game in a long time. It will add a ton of replay value and variety to the game. 

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I'm more interested in the skill aspect of combat being in the execution of everything in a fight and less on how well you can math your way to the best build pre-combat. I just want classes that work well and are fun to play, but I'd prefer less customization when it comes to ability choice. All I want to think about is what class to play and then focus on learning how to play it well. It's also less work to design and balance that way.

Edited by Leiloni

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I would like to see 10 skills/keys total.  No picking-and-choosing.

 

However, selecting your promotion class and disciplines might add to these 10 keys, or add/alter existing combo chains.  I want access to everything my archetype/promotion/discipline allows.

 

I hope we see way more customization than this! I find it really fun to customize a niche build, and even though its not the best, it can be a blast to play.

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I'll have to strongly disagree.

10 skills total? in an mmo?

 

Are you insane?

 

I don't think I'm insane at all.

 

And I was agreeing with Leiloni about the 10 slottable keys (of sorts, they are chosen for you), LMB, RMB, and C key.  You might get 1-6 from your archetype, 7 from your promotion class, then 8-0 from your disciplines.

 

However, your promotion class might alter some of the combo chains on 1-6, or even add a combo chain to a key that didn't have one before.

 

But I do not like the idea of having to select either Burning Biscuits or Flaming Fingers for my 5 key.  I don't see the need in having 50-60 skills to choose from.  If you want choice, make it at the promotion class and discipline level.  If you select A promotion class, then you gain X combo chain.  If you select B promotion class, then you gain Y combo chain.

 

Don't make choices upon choices in an action-MMO.


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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I hope it is a lot like SB where you can drag every single little skill out onto the screen if you wish.  I hope the bar is dynamic in letting us fill it with as many skills as we want.  Granted you can only use so many due to binds, but maybe some of those are pre-combat skills such as a stance or a buff with a couple minute duration that you can just manually click without having to bring up your skill list before entering combat.  The less restrictions the better.


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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I really don't see how we'd get more skills in this case. I mean sure, variety is nice and all, but by the point you get to 16+, you're probably stretching for ideas real bad. 10 or less skills based on archetype, maybe a few added or modified by promotion class, and a few from disciplines.

 

Customization of skills, I believe, is not very important in this game. We pick an archetype that dictates roughly our playstyle, meaning knights will be melee mitigation tanks and confessors will be ranged AoE. There's a limit to what you can create within those defined parameters.

 

To ask for 10+ skills for a single archetype, not even the promotion, is unreasonable if you want to keep the purity of purpose of the archetypes.

 

I personally feel like the system is deep enough with promotions and disciplines. I believe making an archetype a pool of skills will screw up the game's purpose and, frankly, the point of having archetypes.

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I hope every archetype has a possibility space of 100+ depending on the choices I make in my build.  I simply don't want a pre-boxed character handed to me; please let me make or break my own characters.  I want to experiment, fail, and try again until meta-games shift ala Shadowbane.  Making the character builds too much like a MOBA would be awful for an MMO.

 

I know the devs have backed off changing the roles of archetypes with disciplines; I think this is a mistake, and hope there is still a lot of breadth within archetypes through disciplines.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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I hope every archetype has a possibility space of 100+ depending on the choices I make in my build.  I simply don't want a pre-boxed character handed to me; please let me make or break my own characters.  I want to experiment, fail, and try again until meta-games shift ala Shadowbane.  Making the character builds too much like a MOBA would be awful for an MMO.

 

I know the devs have backed off changing the roles of archetypes with disciplines; I think this is a mistake, and hope there is still a lot of breadth within archetypes through disciplines.

Where did they say they backed off? I see archetypes as more of a starting off point and less a boxed class with little wiggle room.

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I don't think I'm insane at all.

 

And I was agreeing with Leiloni about the 10 slottable keys (of sorts, they are chosen for you), LMB, RMB, and C key.  You might get 1-6 from your archetype, 7 from your promotion class, then 8-0 from your disciplines.

 

However, your promotion class might alter some of the combo chains on 1-6, or even add a combo chain to a key that didn't have one before.

 

But I do not like the idea of having to select either Burning Biscuits or Flaming Fingers for my 5 key.  I don't see the need in having 50-60 skills to choose from.  If you want choice, make it at the promotion class and discipline level.  If you select A promotion class, then you gain X combo chain.  If you select B promotion class, then you gain Y combo chain.

 

Don't make choices upon choices in an action-MMO.

 

You're asking for a very shallow game. Choices and customization is part of the genre. As it stands now I wouldn't consider crowfall an action mmo, as much as I would call crowfall an mmorpg without tab targeting (which doesn't qualify as action imo). Combat in crowfall is way slower than tera or gw2/ws/eso and more methodical.

 

Even in those faster pace games, character building is a thing. 

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Even in those faster pace games, character building is a thing. 

 

For me, character building isn't the challenge.  I would prefer that myself and another guy be given a character with the same set of skills/abilities.  Whoever wins the fight would certainly be the guy with better skill, yes?


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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