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Kloke

Making a true Scout class option.

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What I mean by that is for me at least I wanted to play a Scout again in Crowfall.  There is a discussion on this in the Stalker forum but I was thinking posting here was more appropriate.
 
http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2661-ranger-or-stalker/page-2 is the page that I am speaking of but rather than make you dig I will quote here.
 
 
"Kloke, on 10 Sept 2015 - 1:38 PM, said:snapback.png

Scouts Stealthed in SB and I would assume the Stalker would here as well.

 
So far the clues indicate that they are treating stealth and anti-stealth as two different playstyles.  I wouldn't count on the Stalker being both a stealther and anti-stealther.  It is possible, though.
 
Gordon said this:
 
Quote

Not all archetypes will have access to it – so instead, we’ll likely give some archetypes access to hunting (anti-stealth) as a viable alternative.

 
And Todd said this:
 
Quote

My goal was to make it similar to the SB stealth game; there were two different play styles, one geared towards stealth (infiltration, information retrieval, assassination) and one geared towards anti-stealth (seeking out and eliminating the former.)

 
Weirdly, Todd's quote seems to overlook the fact that in SB one class (Scout) actually did cover both play styles."
 
To throw an opinion out there from an Old Shadowbane Scout, I would like to see both play styles back as one for an option.  My scout pretty much could not kill a bunny but I would stealth around using track to find other stealthers and I would pop them with a bleed and then a snare and then it was my groups job to kill him.

 

I kept other thieves and scouts away at the expense of not having many points to put into damage and the such.  I was fast as hell, had stealth, see invis and tracking but I was pretty much not going to kill you but that was the trade off.  I traded off all of the offensive for the ability to Stealth and Reveal stealth.  

 

I am willing to give anything a chance but I am wanting Scouting to really matter again.

 

My suggestion is that it does not always have to be separated, the scout class worked well and if you were going to max stealth and see invis you had to gimp other things but it allowed you to truly be a Scout for a guild.  Fast, Invis, able to gather intel and able to reveal other issues in your ranks.

Edited by Kloke

Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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I'm guessing he's referring to the rock, paper, scissors approach. The Templar would be more anti-stealth, while Assassin geared towards stealth. The templar would be holding skills that have a light and detection radius while the the assassin does what it does best. There are many different aspects that have yet to be answered and that are still being worked on, but so far it is the counter method in which every class has an opposite to balance the game, even though the player may have a better build, the group may be stronger based on the class structure.

 

I'm pretty sure that the equivalent of both play styles will not be included in order to keep the balance of the game. That, or in place of the "scout" is the ranger. In most games the Ranger is a support type that helps with detection as well as stealth while dealing moderate amounts of damage. If you include the possibility of the pet rangers hold in most games, that includes detection capabilities as well as stealth capabilities and bonuses in each.

 

But that's just my guess.

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That is what I am hoping though they say that the Anti Stealther is the Deer and that he does not have native stealth from what I read.  I would assume that any class I pick to do it will be weakened in some way to accomplish it.  That is where both UO and Shadowbane shined, you could build your character how ever you wanted so long as you had the points to spend but if you wanted to excel in one thing you had to choose not to do well in others.

 

For me to have Speed, Stealth, magic resist and See Invis Maxed, I really took a hit on things like Offensive and Defensive power strengths.  When i say I could not kill a bunny, I was rather serious, unless of course the bunny was sickly or half eaten.  Then I had a shot!


Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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I think what Todd was getting at is that the Scouts in SB weren't very good killers.  Every other rogue class could kill better than a Scout could.  The Scout's main function was anti-stealth, and recon.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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Ahh, see that is exactly what I want to make my main.  I am not worried about dps or killing efficiently but getting around stealthly, revealing, tracking others.  That is where it is at.

 

Basically the things that matter to me on my "Scout"

 

Ranged

Fast movement (When not Stealthed)

Stealth (Faster if you really spec deeply into it)

Tracking 

See Invisibility

With a Snare and a dot to keep the target revealed and within my dps / tanks reach.

 

Those things basically were a scout for me.  The class as you said was not a killer but a severe pain in the arse and also very good at recon.


Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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I get what you're saying and I understand that you really like having both stealth and antistealth play on the same character, but there's no particular reason those playstyles logically or thematically belong together. Maybe you'll get lucky and have the option to add a stealth discipline to a detector or a detection discipline to a stealther, but if they don't you'll still have some options. Any stealth character, even without see invis, can scout out troop movements of enemy forces- unless he gets caught by enemy anti-stealth.

 

If you're saying that you're not interested in Crowfall unless they give you the exact character build option you want to play, well, that's a personal choice but it doesn't mean that the design decisions they're making are wrong. If it turns out that you cannot be an effective antistealth character without also having stealth, that's a different story, but I'm pretty confident that will turn out not to be the case.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Understood, I re-read what I wrote and will re-word it the way I meant to come across. I wrote everything on a phone which really does not lead to terribly well thought out responses.

 

I will probably delete this one and restate it correctly as it was not the way I originally meant to come across.


Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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The stalker is a "hunter" a ranged DPS...it likely will be anti-stealth. If you want stealth and being a scout, ranger is your best bet as a specialist is more likely to have access to stealth.

 

So far it would appear like the specialist symbol with a mask are the stealthers. Currently only assassin and ranger. So there are your typical scouts.

 

Typical MMO's that revolve around team tactics rarely allow stealth and anti stealth in the same class, it makes it more team/group oriented if you split up such things. Such as making debuffs either magical or physical and splitting the cleanses for them among the classes so no one class can handle both.


"Lawful Good does not always mean Lawful Nice."

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I tried to reword it to be more explanatory, please let me know if it makes more sense.


Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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