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Leader Boards

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I think too many people are caught up on KDR with a leaderboard, while a leaderboard can represent anything to be honest. Perhaps a score tally based on campaign points (guilds that scored the points in the campaign, and a leaderboard that will track all the accumulated points from every campaign they won or lost).

 

People forget that they're going for a very GW2 / ESOish type win condition system, where capturing map objectives and such reward you points, highest points is declared the winner.

 

In that scenario I think a leaderboard would be fine, doesn't need to be per individual basis (although having one for PURELY vanity reasons isn't terrible either).

 

The leaderboard will also expose frauds and scrub guilds, so I can see why a lot of people wouldn't want a campaign score leaderboard.

Edited by helix

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Leader boards will just prove its a MOBA that lasts a couple months. It isn't play to crush. It's play to get points.

 

I guess the idea of a real, sandbox MMO is dead and has been replaced by the new generation of gamers who's attention span can't go past a points board.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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"I guess the idea of a real, sandbox MMO is dead and has been replaced by the new generation of gamers who's attention span can't go past a points board."

Aaaaand now he makes it personal.

 

Dang quoter thingy isn't working atm

Edited by Sommazzatore

   Elder Scrolls Online - Templar/Nightblade Mains      Guild Wars 2 - Necromancer/Thief Mains    http://www.twitch.tv/sommazzatore

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"I guess the idea of a real, sandbox MMO is dead and has been replaced by the new generation of gamers who's attention span can't go past a points board."

Aaaaand now he makes it personal.

 

Dang quoter thingy isn't working atm

 

He's pointing out the direction that video games have taken the past few years, don't see how that's making it personal.

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Leader boards will just prove its a MOBA that lasts a couple months. It isn't play to crush. It's play to get points.

I guess the idea of a real, sandbox MMO is dead and has been replaced by the new generation of gamers who's attention span can't go past a points board.

Lol, low attention spans has nothing to do with it. I work with numbers every day, I like them.

 

Except winning revolves around getting the most campaign points by the end of the campaign life cycle. They've already talked about this. Leaderboards just provide statistical evidence as to actually is the best (cause if you're not winning campaigns, odds are you're not going to top the leaderboard). Campaigns in crowfall are no different than campaigns in eso or borderlands in gw2, guess what three things all have in common?

 

None of this "me and my small 3 man guild killed 5 guys one time.", well did you have an impact on the campaign? Take any forts? No? Fck outta here then.

 

Some guilds will play to win, and some will play to jerk off.

Edited by helix

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He's pointing out the direction that video games have taken the past few years, don't see how that's making it personal.

 

Hes trying to make the case that the only reason anyone would want a leaderboard is if they have a short attention span. Its often something people say if they are trying to insult intelligence or degrade opinions. Its just annoying that people can't share opinions grounded in a little fact without going in that kind of direction.


   Elder Scrolls Online - Templar/Nightblade Mains      Guild Wars 2 - Necromancer/Thief Mains    http://www.twitch.tv/sommazzatore

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Campaigns in crow fall are no different than campaigns in eso or borderlands in gw2, guess what three things all have in common?

They suck?


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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Lol, low attention spans has nothing to do with it. I work with numbers every day, I like them.

 

Except winning revolves around getting the most campaign points by the end of the campaign life cycle. They've already talked about this. Leaderboards just provide statistical evidence as to actually is the best (cause if you're not winning campaigns, odds are you're not going to top the leaderboard). Campaigns in crowfall are no different than campaigns in eso or borderlands in gw2, guess what three things all have in common?

 

None of this "me and my small 3 man guild killed 5 guys one time.", well did you have an impact on the campaign? Take any forts? No? Fck outta here then.

 

Some guilds will play to win, and some will play to jerk off.

Campaigns in crowfall are extremely different... these are much more persistent and you aren't going to be flipping keeps every 5min.....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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They suck?

Thats one thing, not three. And I wouldn't say that Guild wars or ESO sucked at pvp, people just got tired of the same thing is all. They both still have a decent fan base and Guild Wars 2 is almost always in the top 2, top 3 minimum for most healthy mmos.


   Elder Scrolls Online - Templar/Nightblade Mains      Guild Wars 2 - Necromancer/Thief Mains    http://www.twitch.tv/sommazzatore

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If you think they don't suck in PvP then you are bad at PvP.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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helix:

 

can you come up with some kinda point system that actually measures "being good" across many different campaigns?

 

I personally can't.

If ACE implements some form of leadboards that can be used to track a guild's success across different camopaign worlds, let alone campaign bands, then why not, implement it.

Some Campaigns will be stacked with good guilds, others will be free wins. Some campaigns may be decided, because a CN/EU guild sieges all your poorly made socks on july 4th and so on.

 

There are so many variables and scenarios that are IMPOSSIBLE to keep track of and which are impossible to translate into leaderboards.

 

 

Imo every form of scoreboard will consist of the tracking of useless stats, that have no actual meaning and will be heavily padded by the people that care about their numbers.

But in no way or form will it display "good" or "bad" guilds.

Edited by freeze

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Even if leaderboards could accurately reflect proficiency I still wouldn't want them for an mmorpg... that information shouldn't be gifted to people... people should have to go out into the game world, and socialize and interact with various groups to learn the lay of the land.... this is a quality that has been lost in the convenience era and unfortunately people who haven't experienced really immersive mmorpg worlds can't really understand how big a loss it is. 

 

Yall want your easy access google information features.... get back to playing an actual game instead of a "give me all the data and i click correctly for a while based on that free data and then you pat me on the back with an achievement"....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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An overall score can be made. Just has to be unified.

 

Just as an example: (numbers represent a numeric example)

Kills = K (20)

Deaths = D (10)

Territory Claims = C (4)

Territory Loss = L (1)

Campaign Wins = W (2)

 

(K+C)W-(D+L) = Overall Score

(20+4)2-(10+1) = 37

 

 

Of course more stats can be implemented and values can be changed. Even the equation can be altered the point being it is possible to have a leader board with stat that vaguely represents "success".


 

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Even if leaderboards could accurately reflect proficiency I still wouldn't want them for an mmorpg... that information shouldn't be gifted to people... people should have to go out into the game world, and socialize and interact with various groups to learn the lay of the land.... this is a quality that has been lost in the convenience era and unfortunately people who haven't experienced really immersive mmorpg worlds can't really understand how big a loss it is. 

 

Yall want your easy access google information features.... get back to playing an actual game instead of a "give me all the data and i click correctly for a while based on that free data and then you pat me on the back with an achievement"....

To be fair. Information in this sort of data doesn't mean anything. Even if there were an exact science, the perfect equation that ultimately defines a persons skill even on a bad day, it doesn't matter.

 

Because at the end of the day, we can have lines, bars, pie charts flying out of every fan site and API blistered board on the net, it comes down to what you and hundreds of thousands of other player do with it.

 

Just because the information is there. Doesn't mean people have to acknowledge it. You can still do a guild recruitment system based on interviews, forum rep, or pretty pretty princess cosplays, whatever the criteria. And social aspects are still social aspects. 

 

Information is information. Ignoring it is optional. 


 

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helix:

 

can you come up with some kinda point system that actually measures "being good" across many different campaigns?

 

 

Leaderboards aren't used to measure being "good" as much as they are being "successful". I guess you can say if you're good, you'e going to most likely be successful, and that success is an indication of your competence. Individuals don't really matter in these types of games, good organization and competent leadership, and of course, winning is the only thing that matters (yea, fun is cool, but losing is not fun).

 

Tracking stats within campaigns and campaign rulesets should be easy enough. You could have local and global scope leaderboards (just like how daoc did it, where guild scores were matched up  internally within their faction, server and then finally on a global scale).

 

This same setup could work in crowfall, where you have a sub-leaderboard for every campaign world (assuming that campaign world names will be static, like more traditional servers), and then a leaderboard that will tally up scores across all campaigns in a ruleset.

 

For campaigns like FvF or god vs god, you'd just need more sub-leaderboards.

 

 

 

 

Campaigns in crowfall are extremely different... these are much more persistent and you aren't going to be flipping keeps every 5min.....

 

You don't need to flip a keep every 5mins to have a leaderboard. From my understanding, the longer you hold an objective the more points you get.

 

 

If you think they don't suck in PvP then you are bad at PvP.

 

What game would you qualify as good pvp?

Edited by helix

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Leaderboards are just for people that like to statpad and show their e-peen and claim they are superior to everyone else because they play safe and run away from fights so they can have their positive KD ratio and brag about how leet they are.

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To be fair. Information in this sort of data doesn't mean anything. Even if there were an exact science, the perfect equation that ultimately defines a persons skill even on a bad day, it doesn't matter.

 

Because at the end of the day, we can have lines, bars, pie charts flying out of every fan site and API blistered board on the net, it comes down to what you and hundreds of thousands of other player do with it.

 

Just because the information is there. Doesn't mean people have to acknowledge it. You can still do a guild recruitment system based on interviews, forum rep, or pretty pretty princess cosplays, whatever the criteria. And social aspects are still social aspects. 

 

Information is information. Ignoring it is optional. 

Just having that information out there will create certain community behavior that sets back the evolution of the game.... most people will gravitate towards tunnel visioning on stats without understanding the context behind them just because it's an easy and simple way for them to quantify things whether it is accurate or not in the bigger picture. 

 

People always take the path of least resistance as well... if data is out there people are going to use it.... but that's not the point of gaming, the point of gaming isn't to tell you every little detail... 

 

People aren't really going to understand a quality gaming experience until you get rid of all the easy-street convenience features... hopefully crowfall is brave enough to avoid most of the easy-street features... we will see.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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