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Krogar

Books (fantasy)

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He never managed to get Mat right. Sad face.

 

Yeah, I completely agree. I'm thankful to Sanderson for stepping up and finishing the series, but he's noticeably different from Jordan in a lot of ways I didn't care for. I much preferred the way Jordan approached battles and prolonged conflict. Jordan's command of military science and history was something which really attracted me to the series, and irked me about Sanderson's books. The battle in Book 5 and Mat's campaign near the end of Book 11 were probably my favorite events in the whole series.

 

I never noticed a deterioration in the quality of his writing, but there are chapters in some of the later books that are best skipped entirely (unless you're into historical costuming and petty gossip).


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He never managed to get Mat right. Sad face.

 

I read and re-read the series many times (to catch up and refresh memory for release of a new book).  Mat's character was a favorite; Sanderson turned him into a caricature of himself.  I felt that way about most of Sanderson's first book, it was a writer that could attempt to ape and mimic but never understood his source.

 

I have never finished the series.  I was too appalled by Sanderson's first attempt I didnt come back for the other two.

Edited by angelmar

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Tolkien was great, and full of seemingly unintentional social, political and religious allegory. I really enjoyed The Silmarillion.

 

Moorcock's Elric Saga is excellent. I have a love/hate relationship with Elric himself- I always enjoyed the cruel majesty of his race, even if he spurned it.

 

Robert E. Howard doesn't get the credit he deserves for helping to create the fantasy genre, imo. His world was every bit as complex as Tolkien's and has just as many important observations about the world he lived in. Howard's Conan is intelligent, independent and every bit as loyal to his friends as he is terrifying to his enemies. I really enjoy the low/dark fantasy take on magic you get from writers like Howard and Moorcock, where magic is something on the periphery of normal human experience. It requires virgin's blood, souls and a sick mind. 

 

Robert Jordan is the heir to Howard's throne in the realm of American fantasy, at least in my opinion. I read Wheel of Time in high school, and it really set the standard for me in terms of the quality and depth of epic fantasy. One thing I always like to reflect on about WoT, is how "American" the main characters are in their values and world view. I felt as though Rand al'Thor or Matrim Cauthon were very similar to people I knew growing up, and I'm still not sure if their values had a lasting impact on me, or if I merely recognized a little bit of myself in them. I should also note that Jordan was very good (2nd only to Howard) in portraying Conan of Cimmeria in any of the several short novels he has in the Hyborian Age.

 

Glen Cook is simply awesome. His unique style and measured, realistic portrayal of humanity strikes a chord with the cynical bastard in me. The Black Company instantly stood out to me as a character in and of itself, reminding me a lot of the various Shadowbane guilds I've been a part of. The "it's us against the world" mentality of a tightly knit military unit is immediately attractive to the tribalist inside of all of us.

 

The fact that Steven Erikson was inspired by Howard and Cook told me everything I needed to know about the series before I ever picked it up. I'm half way through book 10 of the Malazan series, and it's been an amazing heart-to-heart conversation with the author. The vast host of characters, places, organizations and ideas can be daunting, but the series is extremely rewarding for those who can commit to the task. Each novel begins with a number of disparate threads which ultimately converge together in a way that either delights and surprises the reader, or makes him inconsolable for about a week. Eriskon's Malazan Marines rival the mercenaries of the Black Company in terms of valor and martial feats accomplished, though they substitute the Company's cruel pragmatism for a warmer sense of loyalty to their fellow soldiers.

 

I think it is easy to become iconoclastic given the current zeitgeist popularity of Tolkien's work, but i feel the style and depth of his work warrants in part it's current popularity(and rightly so). 

 

As someone who is only at book 6/10 of Eriksons Malazan series your last paragraph gives me hope for the quality of the rest of the series. The Bridge-burners ( all of them but especially Paran, Whiskyjack, Fid and Kalam Mekhar) ,  Karsa Orlong,  Tehol Beddict & Bugg have been some of the best written characters  for me. The pace of each book has been similar with a slow build (with necessary exposition) to finish in an excellent last third. I am enjoying the books and his style profusely. It makes me laugh when i hear that "George R R Martin kills so many of his good characters" . Comparatively Erikson is a Butcher and it works so well leaving me to genuinely worry about individuals i have become attached to. The Karsa Orlong figure reminds me of Conan and in many ways fills that archetypal space in the story world, can not wait to see how his story unfolds.

 

What are the Glen Cook Books you mentioned called ?


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I think it is easy to become iconoclastic given the current zeitgeist popularity of Tolkien's work, but i feel the style and depth of his work warrants in part it's current popularity(and rightly so). 

 

As someone who is only at book 6/10 of Eriksons Malazan series your last paragraph gives me hope for the quality of the rest of the series. The Bridge-burners ( all of them but especially Paran, Whiskyjack, Fid and Kalam Mekhar) ,  Karsa Orlong,  Tehol Beddict & Bugg have been some of the best written characters  for me. The pace of each book has been similar with a slow build (with necessary exposition) to finish in an excellent last third. I am enjoying the books and his style profusely. It makes me laugh when i hear that "George R R Martin kills so many of his good characters" . Comparatively Erikson is a Butcher and it works so well leaving me to genuinely worry about individuals i have become attached to. The Karsa Orlong figure reminds me of Conan and in many ways fills that archetypal space in the story world, can not wait to see how his story unfolds.

 

What are the Glen Cook Books you mentioned called ?

Book 6, while at first is a little off-putting due to the fact that it seemly follows another story, is one of my favorite books in the series. That book literally sets the stage for many more to come, and all of the old characters get intertwined with it in pretty epic ways. If you get a chance to, reread the whole series. It's amazing what you'll have missed the first go around.

 

But your right about Erikson's butchery. GRRM is nothing when compared to him. I still think of Coltaine's March every now and then, and how disgruntled I was.

 

To answer your question though, he's talking about Glen Cook's The Black Company. A great book, but it's aged just a tad too much for me though. Although, Tolkien's works have aged insurmountably worse in my opinion.

Edited by cannibal man

Cannibal Man - Future serial killer

I can't even.  You win, I am done with this part of the discussion.

 

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For some reason I really, really enjoyed The Wheel of Time (actually gone over the entire series of doorstoppers 3 or 4 times), despite Jordans clothing fetish and sometimes weird style of writing, and also despite the fact that about 80% of the cast are really punchworthy douchenozzles. And then there is Egwene, one of the most punchable characters in literature history.

 

Also liked Trudi Canavans "Kyralia series", especially the magic system she used in them with mages casting spells essentially from hit points and turning into pocket nukes when killed (or not so "pocket" if the mage in question was powerful enough).

Right? no matter the oddities in the books. I can't not read the whole damn series atleast once a year. 


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Book 6, while at first is a little off-putting due to the fact that it seemly follows another story, is one of my favorite books in the series. That book literally sets the stage for many more to come, and all of the old characters get intertwined with it in pretty epic ways. If you get a chance to, reread the whole series. It's amazing what you'll have missed the first go around.

 

But your right about Erikson's butchery. GRRM is nothing when compared to him. I still think of Coltaine's March every now and then, and how disgruntled I was.

 

To answer your question though, he's talking about Glen Cook's The Black Company. A great book, but it's aged just a tad too much for me though. Although, Tolkien's works have aged insurmountably worse in my opinion.

 

Poor "Chain of dogs" never sat right with me. Also the old guy who comes to Tehol Beddicts defence in book 5 ...boom awful , you get introduced to him in passing ...he is not there at the warehouse...he turns up and blam HEAD STAMPED IN TO A PULP ! 

 

Not far into 6 and i already enjoying it , book 5 was about the Edur and a bit out of step but  that of course sets us up for the next 5 so bring it on. 


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Robert Jordan = misogynistic impulses

 

Jordan's not great with the female gender, but Goodkind is much worse.

 

But of course, male fantasy authors having "interesting" ideas about gender relations is a time honored tradition going back at least to the 60s *cough*johnnorman*coughcough*


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But of course, male fantasy authors having "interesting" ideas about gender relations is a time honored tradition going back at least to the 60s *cough*johnnorman*coughcough*

 

You mean the early 30s pulp writers. Oh, wait, nevermind. We can go back to the first time someone took a stylus or whatever in his hands.

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