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Yaga, the Goddess of Magic - Official discussion thread

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I like the art, and I like the concept even more.

 

The idea that players will be choosing deities to align with as a game mechanic... I hope that's more than just a cosmetic choice. In fantasy settings generally, and in Crowfall in particular, gods tend to muck with mortal lives pretty frequently.

 

This is a tight balance that we've been trying to walk. The problem is: the idea of having unique blessings for each God is really cool, but think about how it would play out in actual gameplay.  

 

Let's say Yaga could offer me a blessing that slightly improves respawn time, and Malekai offers a blessing that slightly improves my crit chance.  Both options are thematic and cool, but now I'm stuck.  I can either pick a God for narrative/roleplaying reasons, OR I can pick the in-game benefit that I'm most interested in.

 

What do you think most players will do?

 

...power.  99% of the time, the narrative goes out the window and they go for the power.

 

We have some ideas to address this, but it's definitely a challenge.

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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Create a library of thematic boons available to servants of Order, Chaos, and Balance; allow followers of a specific god to choose any boon from that alignment's repertoire. It's not perfect, but balancing 3 lists of blessings against each other is much easier than balancing 12 individual buffs.


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Create a library of thematic boons available to servants of Order, Chaos, and Balance; allow followers of a specific god to choose any boon from that alignment's repertoire. It's not perfect, but balancing 3 lists of blessings against each other is much easier than balancing 12 individual buffs.

Exactly, just like how there were race specific boons in Shadowbane, do the same.


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This is a tight balance that we've been trying to walk. The problem is: the idea of having unique blessings for each God is really cool, but think about how it would play out in actual gameplay.  

 

Let's say Yaga could offer me a blessing that slightly improves respawn time, and Malekai offers a blessing that slightly improves my crit chance.  Both options are thematic and cool, but now I'm stuck.  I can either pick a God for narrative/roleplaying reasons, OR I can pick the in-game benefit that I'm most interested in.

 

What do you think most players will do?

 

...power.  99% of the time, the narrative goes out the window and they go for the power.

 

We have some ideas to address this, but it's definitely a challenge.

 

Todd

ACE

Rotate the benefit powers between the God's per campaign or per a set timeframe (every other week or something)?  I'm sure a fancy story can be written up for why the God's benefits would rotate on occasion.


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Or you could also make those boons cosmetic, but really good looking. Like if you choose cybelle, you kill X people, win Y campaigns, or do some other feat and then gain a cool title and access to uniquely spring-styled armor sets, weapons, furniture and stuff, all available via in game shop.

Edited by rajah

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Create a library of thematic boons available to servants of Order, Chaos, and Balance; allow followers of a specific god to choose any boon from that alignment's repertoire. It's not perfect, but balancing 3 lists of blessings against each other is much easier than balancing 12 individual buffs.

 

There's still an optimal strategy, a single boon that's best for your build even if you can pick from a list. Crit chance boost? A proc that synergizes with your build's damage element? Heal over time on a tank spec? Any advantage adds to the optimization calculation, and power-players will always maximize that objective function irrespective of lore, context, flavor, or alignment. If there are mutually exclusive advantages tied to each particular god, that will be deciding factor when selecting an alignment.

 

The best way to encourage lore involvement is via rewards/achievements/accomplishments. Prolonged loyalty to one particular god unlocks cosmetics, titles, EK fluff, and so on.

 

Or have a rock-paper-scissors thing, where one god gets an advantage against follows of one god, and a disadvantage against followers of another. However, then you have a problem where if I have a grudge against one guild, I wait until they join a campaign and then join after them on the team of their counter-god to trash them for three months. You could hide which god a guild joins until the campaign starts, but any guild worth its salt plays the spy metagame and would know regardless.

Edited by recatek

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What about some mechanic aligned with the lore that players would need to participate in to gain the boon - and it requires a recharge?  I also like the idea of rotating benefits - you could then see the "powerful" boons affecting who is attacking when.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


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Let's say Yaga could offer me a blessing that slightly improves respawn time, and Malekai offers a blessing that slightly improves my crit chance.  Both options are thematic and cool, but now I'm stuck.  I can either pick a God for narrative/roleplaying reasons, OR I can pick the in-game benefit that I'm most interested in.

 

What do you think most players will do?

 

...power.  99% of the time, the narrative goes out the window and they go for the power.

 

On the other hand, if there are no consequences for your choice, 99% of the time people will ignore the choice altogether.


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This is a tight balance that we've been trying to walk. The problem is: the idea of having unique blessings for each God is really cool, but think about how it would play out in actual gameplay.  

 

Let's say Yaga could offer me a blessing that slightly improves respawn time, and Malekai offers a blessing that slightly improves my crit chance.  Both options are thematic and cool, but now I'm stuck.  I can either pick a God for narrative/roleplaying reasons, OR I can pick the in-game benefit that I'm most interested in.

 

What do you think most people will do?

 

...power.  99% of the time, the narrative goes out the window and they go for the power.

 

We have some ideas to address this, but it's definitely a challenge.

 

Todd

ACE

 

This is sort of how the real world works too.  People choose a religion based off of what the religion has to offer them.  This isn't such a bad thing as long as ALL of the blessings are desirable.  And an added bonus is that certain archetypes will lean towards certain gods which makes sense thematically.

 

I know if D&D, for example, that I never picked a god because my character had some greater purpose to his story.  It was always "oh that's a cool power/playstyle".


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no

But... Where will us Grammar Nazis go without divine guidance? What are we living for!?!?!?!

 

On the other hand, if there are no consequences for your choice, 99% of the time people will ignore the choice altogether.

I'd put it closer to 80%, but that is a good point. There needs to be some consequence, but maybe not one that effects play style at the micro level.

 

Of course, how one fights and what one fights for are closely tied together. So I'd think that if gameplay bonuses were used and they encouraged a playstyle that matched the god's lore themes, it'd work pretty well. For instance, I follow a god of shadows. My stealth skills get a bonus, I can only wear black and camo, resistance to cold, and the sun makes me slower/weaker.

 

Taking that concept further, instead of it being a binary "I'm following this god or this god", players could select a god they align with, but in order to get the bonuses they have to do things that grant them favor with their god of choice. The more they please their god, the stronger the bonuses, but the more tied to a style of gameplay they become.

 

However, I'm inclined to believe that these passives should be more supporting effects rather than direct combat effects. If you gave the war god a straight 10% damage increase passive, everyone be taking the freaking war god. War god also probably problematic to include for other reasons. In a game about war, how many players would see him and say, "Well, that's what I'm doing right now, I choose that"?

Edited by Alford

I will be the best Forgemaster

I will make battle spades

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I would prefer if Gods would not give advantages, even the smallest will likely result in the "Choose for Power" as you stated and will likely cause imbalance on the Faction Wars.

 

That aside I love the Lore you brought on her 3 aspects, they are all very intriguing!

 

To me it looks like Yaga's design seems to be influenced by the Hunger aspect. When I look at her frozen fingers and the color of the Scythe it somewhat reminds me on how the creatures change appearance likewise the closer they come to the Hunger.

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Lordy..It seems like next to reaping souls,Yaga also offers a home for lice consumed by the hunger..

 

As for the idea of unique blessings for each god Tod mentions..

Jah is quite right there should be consequence to such choice,otherwise people would indeed ignore it.(or just pick the most powerful option)

The trick is to make such a choice a dilemma through various emergent gameplay implementations that resemble the gods character..a dilemma ,that it would drive y'all crazy MuhaHA

Also some kind of commitment process should be in place that allows you to consider your choice of god before you truly choose to become "devoted"

Maybe in the trial you'll experience a lite version of what you can expect if you become fully devoted

Becoming devoted would finalize it as a permanent decision with no turning back,only reroll character...

Yaga might consume all of your soul anyway 

if you even try to abandon her  :lol:

 

But if you become devoted to yaga for example,each time you die there is a chance yaga might harvest a % of your max hp.

This chance might be influenced by friendly fire and how many fellow devoties of Yaga you damaged.

In return Yaga allows you to morph a power ( are active; you kick them off to make something happen)

and also grants you a unique skill (passive; they affect how well you do things (or react to things) in game)

 

Lets take the archetype i'll probably play as example ,the druid

As a devoted druid to yaga,I could morph 'entangling vines' as 'leeching vines' (god specific morph)

And each time you kill an enemy ,there is a chance yaga recharges your magical equipement for a % ,also based on the proximity of a shrine devoted to Yaga

 

as Yamix mentions,

as long term goal,you'll also unlock cosmetic and thematic options (for the god of your choice)

No doubt that could end up being a difficult choice;pro's,cons ,styles to consider,.yet those choses are intertwined..

I'd love to see the 'pick your poison' element we have in the story also translated & intertwined in the gameplay itself,

The god backgrounds certainly have the ingredients to make the gameplay as interesting ;)

 

Or as Mctan puts it

seach for "mechanics aligned with the lore "

Edited by Tipsy

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We could have the equivalent of racials in other games based on be chosen god as well. Useful but not game breaking powers based on choice of god. Perhaps an Advantage "Devoted of Yaga",for example, could also be used if the powers were too different to be the same cost (0). Riskier but more interesting than pure cosmetics.

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