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KRIPTIK

The flow and feel of ranged combat

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This is perhaps the first or second most commonly discussed topics on the entire forum, and I've written as much as the most on it already. I'm not super excited to compare detailed mechanisms from games you probably haven't experienced to your prejudice about another game you haven't experienced.

 

As brief as I am, I expediently nailed the overlying problem with your observation.

 

Guild Wars lacks manual aim and friendly fire. If that's what works for you, why aren't you even playing it?

 

You may not need to have an existing experience to reference for every desire... but it's none too impressive when that is your observation.

 

Crowfall has been fundamentally opposed to specific mechanics utilized in that system from the beginning. Where do I rationally begin to compare, and how productive would the conversation be?


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I've said this on a few forum posts already, but here it is again: Crowfall is Crowfall. They are building this game against the grain, aka what people expect. It will not be a game for everyone, and thankfully the dev team seems to be sticking to that beat. 

 

Friendly Fire is something that is not new to PvP based games, but is fairly rare in MMO's. Seeing this put into good practice is going to be a unique opportunity! Also, I'm glad that it's only in certain rulesets. 

 

No ranged locking is fine. Same with trajectory and potential gravity implements. If we wanted tab target, we would play something else. Making ranged an actual ranged endeavor where aim is required will be very rewarding if they classes or playstyles themselves make it rewarding. 

 

Best thing to do when playing or wanting to play is to be open minded. See how things pan out. 

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@buhamutkaiser

As brief as I am, I expediently nailed the overlying problem with your observation.

Still looking to troll other peoples suggestions instead of contributing anything productive.

 

You may not need to have an existing experience to reference for every desire... but it's none too impressive when that is your observation.

 

This is just you being an asshat...really.

 

Crowfall has been fundamentally opposed to specific mechanics utilized in that system from the beginning. Where do I rationally begin to compare, and how productive would the conversation be?

 

I stated what I liked about the clip that's how to rationally begin:

 

The pace of battle was good and I liked all the engage/disengage mechanics.

 

The rest you can shove in your bottom for all I care.

Edited by KRIPTIK

KRIPTIKserratedv3_zps4ptlmh6o.gif

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It's not my fault you don't know how to forum Kryp, even the placement is wrong. If you have an actual suggestion, you put it here. If your going to pretend this is a discussion for people to share various options, it's a general discussion topic.

 

Sorry?

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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One thing that ACE has said in the past regarding ranged combat and FF is that they were thinking of doing arcing projectiles. That they haven't done yet and I think something similar to the TERA Sorceror Magma Bomb skill. It's a fixed range projectile that arcs up in the air and falls down 10m in front of them, exploding in a short 3m AoE on the ground or whatever target is standing there. Of course the range could be extended if needed here, but something similar I think could make both parties happy. It has the arc so you can try to aim above your melee and avoid hitting them, but it's also a fixed range so nobody has to have pinpoint accuracy and you always know where it's going to land and plan accordingly.

 

Right now all skills go in a straight line from the Confessor's chest area it seems, causing people to need to aim up a bit on some skills and also introducing concerns about hitting your melee's backs all the time instead of your target with no real way to avoid that. I mean telling them to move works, but there need to be more options than that. Does FF where your friends can't actually work with you but need to move away sound like good design? Don't you want to play as a group instead of "Ok I'll hit him with this and then stop and then you can go hit him with this other thing". Am I the only one that thinks that sounds really silly and only something blind fanboys would find fun?

 

I dunno even I'm not sold on the idea that preset range arcing projectiles will work all that well, but the idea of arcing projectiles is something they'd introduced and it at least sounds better than the current iteration. I also don't know how well that would work when trying to hit someone up on top of a keep, so there's that.

Edited by Leiloni

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My input on this is against FF in a manually targeted game.  I will adapt as will anyone but here are where my concerns come from.  First off I will start by saying I generally prefer FF games over anything else as you cannot just spray and pray and those that do will kill their team quickly so it sets another level of skill.  In a game like this though, you could severely be crippling the ranged classes and their effectiveness.

 

Let's compare Melee to Ranged here, hoping I get my point across.  Now I am not talking 1v1 or 2 v 2 etc where Melee and Ranged have plenty of mass to point at safely to swing. This is more for groups or raids on things but I think you will be able to see what I am talking about.

 

Melee:  You move into position and then you just make sure that you angle correctly so that your powers are on target.  As you are inches from your target, even in a ball of 5 on 1, you can still easily find a spot to swing where you will engage your target while not hitting friendlies in the group.  Yes, there will be times that you can not hit your arc abilities or Aoe abilities because you will hit others but you can generally sustain your Dps and use your abilities constantly.

 

Ranged:  In that same situation you are at a disadvantage.  As a general statement, ranged are Dps classes and to do their job they have to be able to use their abilities at all times.  In a targeted environment, ranged already has a disadvantage as it is when considering spell or projectile speeds, people walking in front of your projectile which negates the effects on the enemy, etc.

 

Targeting in general is harder as well. 

 

At melee range when you cursor is on the target you want, there is no doubt unless someone walks over you and into your swing that you are targeting the correct person.  At maxed range, it is much harder to be on target and to keep it on target as you have 1/5 the target size for your cursor to hit.  If that does not make sense I could put a picture up but the theory is in Melee range, the person you are attacking is much larger on your screen and you can fit 10 targeting recticles in their torso.  At ranged you have to be much more precise because an entire target can fit inside your cursor or at least most of it.

 

The same statement would be used for guns in a real life situation.  The theory of self defense is that you want your target within 14 yards to safely fire on a target for the average shooter.  If that target is 2 feet away, hitting center mass is much easier than if that target is 30 feet away.  Aim small, miss small is the normal statement that goes along with shooting and it would apply here as well.

 

( Single Target ) My suggestion is, rather than FF, if a friendly steps in front of your projectile it just does not hit your target.  That in a ranged case is already punishment enough as melee will already have an advantage in this situation as shown earlier. 

 

( Area of Effect ) My suggestion is for every friendly that you hit you lose x% of damage.

 

Example 1:  10% of damage is reduced per friendly hit.

 

You cast a fireball.  The fireball will do 100 damage to everyone in the Area of Effect.  In the same situation as earlier, you have 5 friendly on one enemy.  ( Yes, I know, why use an AOE for one enemy but this is an example! )

 

Your fireball hits everyone in the ball and does 100 damage.

 

You hit 5 friendly units though so now your fireball does -50% damage so you only do 50 damage to the enemy unit.

 

Example 2:  20% of damage is reduced per friendly hit.

 

You cast a fireball.  The fireball will do 100 damage to everyone in the Area of Effect.  In the same situation as earlier, you have 5 friendly on one enemy.  ( Yes, I know, why use an AOE for one enemy but this is an example! )

 

Your fireball hits everyone in the ball and does 100 damage.

 

You hit 5 friendly units though so now your fireball does -100% damage so you do 0 damage to the enemy unit.

 

This system still allows for "Friendly Fire" to effect the battle and skill will still matter but it does not put the ranged at a place where they cannot ever fire in bigger battles for fear of killing your group.

 

As a final note, I would like "Friendly" being your current group or raid only.  Not a guild or nationwide thing as a blanket statement.  Where I would want dps to suffer if you hit friendly targets, I do not want it to be such a huge blanket that you do not have to use skill and just spam skills.

Edited by Kloke

Kloke

Shadowbane / Server: War / Guild: DHL / Thief: Yin / Scout: Plexiglassdragon

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