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Swordsman (Tank) For PvP?


Zim
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I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere and I missed it:

 

In many cases, tanks in pvp are laughable at best outside of very specific circumstances. They either did not do enough damage to be considered a threat, or were only useful in situations where you needed someone who could take a ton of damage. How do we suppose that ACE is going to make tanks viable enough in Crowfall so that they are dangerous enough to be considered a threat by other player outside of particular situations that are designed especially for them?

 

Carry on.

 

-Zim

Edited by Zim

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"Sharp alone, deadly together."

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I agree, because most people easily identify a tank and then just don't attack that person unless they have some overwhelming cc or aren't able to be passed to get to the back line.  I think so far that unit collision and the way the physics mechanics are going, they will be a bit more effective than usual. Plus, in the case of the knight, I know at least two of his abilities give his group buffs out to a certain range. So I'm thinking that most Tanks will be Tank/support roles.

Still unsure how the Dodge tank Templar will work though. I imagine she'll just be hard to hit and will slowly cut people down? idk.

   Elder Scrolls Online - Templar/Nightblade Mains      Guild Wars 2 - Necromancer/Thief Mains    http://www.twitch.tv/sommazzatore

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Well, the knight currently can charge, pull, and knock down targets, which makes it harder to avoid him. That can help a lot in tanking, just as protective buffs for those around him.

 

Now that you mention swordsman, I hope there'll be a club specialization for knight. We can call him batman.

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I agree, because most people easily identify a tank and then just don't attack that person unless they have some overwhelming cc or aren't able to be passed to get to the back line.  I think so far that unit collision and the way the physics mechanics are going, they will be a bit more effective than usual. Plus, in the case of the knight, I know at least two of his abilities give his group buffs out to a certain range. So I'm thinking that most Tanks will be Tank/support roles.

Still unsure how the Dodge tank Templar will work though. I imagine she'll just be hard to hit and will slowly cut people down? idk.

I didn't consider the collision detection thing. That will definitely play a huge role I think.

 

Well, the knight currently can charge, pull, and knock down targets, which makes it harder to avoid him. That can help a lot in tanking, just as protective buffs for those around him.

 

Now that you mention swordsman, I hope there'll be a club specialization for knight. We can call him batman.

Yea he does have quite a bit of CC to consider.

9e58b2ae2f9ac9f2904b5d4c33b609bb92d1a174


"Sharp alone, deadly together."

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Well the fact that tanks will probably have some good CC and interesting physics interactions is already a lot... you can't really ignore a tank if he is blocking all your shots that you try to take on other people. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It feels that ACE is doing it right, the knight has plenty options to be viable on the battlefield. The problem with tanks is that quite often they are like a living fat piece of ham running around, dishing out very low damage and very hard to kill, which is inherent to their PvE role. Crowfall tanks feel more moderate, I'd say, not that much of a pain in the bottom to kill, and their damage output is acceptable. I'd say that so far Crowfall has "skill-based tanks". You can take punishment and get kills if you use your abilities properly.

Edited by rajah
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As many have mentioned collision detection and CC already make the tank interesting. 

 

Based on who is making this game I hope they add some SWtOR mechanics where taunts and bubbles would help reduce damage to/shield allies.

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As many have mentioned collision detection and CC already make the tank interesting. 

 

Based on who is making this game I hope they add some SWtOR mechanics where taunts and bubbles would help reduce damage to/shield allies.

 

I have a feeling that the commander discipline may involve some of those things. It makes sense to me that the 'commander' would have some group wide boons/buffs to contribute to the group.

9e58b2ae2f9ac9f2904b5d4c33b609bb92d1a174


"Sharp alone, deadly together."

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I have a feeling that the commander discipline may involve some of those things. It makes sense to me that the 'commander' would have some group wide boons/buffs to contribute to the group.

 

I feel like the disciples alone will be a full few days of theory crafting, more than a week when mixed with advantages/disadvantages.

   Elder Scrolls Online - Templar/Nightblade Mains      Guild Wars 2 - Necromancer/Thief Mains    http://www.twitch.tv/sommazzatore

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I have a feeling that the commander discipline may involve some of those things. It makes sense to me that the 'commander' would have some group wide boons/buffs to contribute to the group.

 

I agree the commander should have boons and buffs, perhaps like the Captain in LotRO.  But a tank is about damage and taking it.  Like I said in SWtOR my Guardian could bubble someone and shield damage from my ally or taunt and reduce the damage by a percentage.  That seems more tank than commander.

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I agree the commander should have boons and buffs, perhaps like the Captain in LotRO.  But a tank is about damage and taking it.  Like I said in SWtOR my Guardian could bubble someone and shield damage from my ally or taunt and reduce the damage by a percentage.  That seems more tank than commander.

So then a tank archetype with a commander discipline would pretty much go hand in hand, yea? That's what I think anyways. Maybe a little old fashion of me. I think that's what I'm gonna do with my knight.

9e58b2ae2f9ac9f2904b5d4c33b609bb92d1a174


"Sharp alone, deadly together."

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Talking about that discipline made me think of ESO's Synergies. I really liked that aspect of the combat system and I hope they integrate something like that into the game. It made for a lot of good in-depth group builds.

   Elder Scrolls Online - Templar/Nightblade Mains      Guild Wars 2 - Necromancer/Thief Mains    http://www.twitch.tv/sommazzatore

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So then a tank archetype with a commander discipline would pretty much go hand in hand, yea? That's what I think anyways. Maybe a little old fashion of me. I think that's what I'm gonna do with my knight.

 

Yeah sorry I was brain farting earlier and forgot about this.  The commander discipline would be very helpful.  I know if I go full on tank (because part of me likes doing some dps... sad isn't it... ;) ) then every discipline I take will be for taking more damage, shielding more damage, buffs, cc, or healing.

 

If I decide to go heavy melee then I will be all about dps, cc, and sustainability and out go buffs.

 

Will be interesting :).

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  • 2 months later...

I'd just like to point out how little I see people using their shield. I think just running up front with the big shield out might cause a distraction for some, even if they know to not bother attacking.

19.jpg

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I'd just like to point out how little I see people using their shield. I think just running up front with the big shield out might cause a distraction for some, even if they know to not bother attacking.

We can't move while blocking, so maybe that's why it doesn't seem like we are doing it a lot. Also, most of the videos out there are not from a knight's POV.

 

Knights are actually blocking a lot more now than in 1.0, partly because of the changes they made to block late in 1.0 and partly because players are getting better at playing the knight. If you can catch a 1 vs 1 between 2 knights, you should see a lot of blocking. Other archetypes are more mobile, so you will probably see less blocking against them and more movement.

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  • 3 months later...

Are we all forgetting one major actor of the knight? His slows, I mean his jewel combo can result in a 50 percent speed reduction. and he has pursuit AND chain grab. And if anyone think " oh, that's just a knight, he doesn't do much damage". Use your shield which can make you deal like 5-10k damage and make that sucker bleed and fall down. I mean if you just chase a ranger just so you can be in front of that ranger to block, that ranger will seriously get punished hard if they don't do anything.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere and I missed it:

 

In many cases, tanks in pvp are laughable at best outside of very specific circumstances. They either did not do enough damage to be considered a threat, or were only useful in situations where you needed someone who could take a ton of damage. How do we suppose that ACE is going to make tanks viable enough in Crowfall so that they are dangerous enough to be considered a threat by other player outside of particular situations that are designed especially for them?

 

Carry on.

 

-Zim

 

ok only noobs who can't tank or don't know how to tank in pvp only say that about tanks... the Devs make those roles for a reasons....every class has a job

 

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I always thought WAR did tanks well, they could throw out taunts that meant anyone attacking someone other than the tank did reduced damage until tank had been struck x amount of times. They could also block projectiles and damge for people behind them etc.

 

So far the knight seems to have some good CC that means he cant be ignored if you want steady damage from your DPS

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some interesting concepts here. im hoping tanking will be viable as in most games I play, I dps. Gunning for a tank in this one tho...

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well depends on the game, a well built well played sword and shield char can really be key in group fights.   Stuns/snares high DPS targets on your backline.   I tend to do 2vX 3vX team V Zerg in MMOs and can say a good tanky player looking out for his/her team can make or break the fight. 

 

A tunnel vision dps player (like myself) cant really play that role.   Im not good at the multitasking.

 

Only good multitasking players make good "tanks"/heavies in PvP games.  Its only for skilled folks that like the role, its not for me but I friends list anyone I see good at peeling changing targets when you are in trouble those kinds of plays set themselves and their teams as top level PvPers. 

Edited by Xomox
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