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Myri

Animations should be Speed Up

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You can't say faster pace is the universal solution,although some things might not yet have hit that "sweet spot" through a little tweaking here and there.All that is required are little tweaks to combat animations to make it more involving and intuitive...those tweaks were probably already planned ..Its pre-Alpha you know..

But oh no,lets all grab our axes and start butchering the entire combat system..

 

"Throne War Simulator, and it's a mix of a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) and a large scale strategic simulator of a fantasy world."

 

Mmo's have always walked a fine line between skill and twitch.

The general trend in both gameplay and control configuration has been to reward spastic player input ,decreasing emphasis on stategy and flatten the learning curves.

..Figures that games have been going downhill all these years..

If they want "large scale strategic simulator" they need to go for skill and strategical depth.

It is true that action games normally leave little time for complex strategic planning.But in the end,they said this type of game has never been done before.

 

Power attacks that have larger impact need to leave space(dosed right) for effective counterplay.

I think if you're chasing a confessor and she can just turn around and blast her lethal power attack in your face instantly ,all the melee fans would regret ever requesting the removal of animation locks.

Her power attack being sealed behind an animation lock means she needs to time it,she needs her group members to keep enemies off her while she performs her power attack

Its all about timing,estimations,executing at the right moment, accurately timing your abilities..

 

Go play tetris


and share the level you reached..get your bragging rights fix today  :lol:

Edited by Tipsy

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actually I am in for both. Some things should stay slow and some things should be faster. For example don't mind having a slower animation on a champion swinging his axe but be on par when it comes to dodges/evasive maneuvers and some minor attacks or so. 

 

But in general a little bit faster combat wouldn't hurt though it has to be balanced. 


You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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The duelist on the other hand might have faster paced animations..
Slower animations for the beefy champion,suits you sir  :lol:

 

To achieve balance,both are needed.Also in "large scale strategic simulation"

Which differs from small skirmishes

Edited by Tipsy

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Animation lock challenges you to estimate when the right situation occurs to use a power.

Especially major powers that hit hard need longer cast time,like meteor purge from the confessor(love the animation that comes with it)

So with animation locks, you need to be cautious and time skill activation effectively.

If you are on the opposing side,you have the required time to try to prevent an enemy confessor to unleash her meteor purge.

Animation locks help to keep the 'time to kill' reasonable.So opponents can't powerchain you to death in a second.

 

So it promotes skillful play,planning skills,put the emphasis more on tactics.

While taking it away remove a skillful playing field,instead it would promote the spastic button smashing spamfests where rotation is all that matters.

The ones that want animation locks removed will probably be the first to complain that the game has no tactics & that its boring

What do you expect from a spamfest..

Dark-Souls-2-Dark-Souls-games-single-pla

 

Crowfall is on the right tracks(maybe some minor tweaks here an there)

Its shaping up very nicely and animations look topnotch ..

Edited by Tipsy

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It's all gravy until you have to add more complex systems to the mix. Beyond which, faster actions means more APM which translates to more server burden.

 

I'm not participating so I don't know how it feels, just pointing out some of the dilemmas. Personally, I'd prefer slower more deliberate combat where your observantly adjusting each attack for maximum effectiveness rather than quickly completing mindless attack chains like dynasty warrior. When I think of the appropriate speed of actions in combat, I'm wondering how fast me and my opponent are moving, and what speed can be transmitted over the Internet and still allow us to interact with each others actions. Not just how fluid it feels to face roll my keyboard...


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Animation locks are fine for the most powerful powers, but please keep the animations clean and purposeful or shorten them. we don't need to see useless somersaults, weapon juggling, mid-air direction changes (unless the toon has wings), etc. And the Knight's shield shouldn't be a hang glider anymore.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Animation lock challenges you to estimate when the right situation occurs to use a power.

 

This amount of animation is okay, when you're fighting a limited number of targets. However when you have 50+ people all shooting fireballs at you, and you're a melee, the right situation to execute an attack will be "never" since it puts you in the worst possible position. 

 

I can see the animation lock currently in the game being fine for small scale scrimmages, but it will be absolutely terrible for the majority of archetypes in larger scale fights.

 

It's worth to note, that executing the right attack in the right situation is not something unique to games that utilizes animation lock.

 

Right now combat is suffering mostly from server side movement, and over use of animation lock.

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Retreating is a valid tactic too,many forget.Ofcourse everyone wants to be god and single handed take on 50 confessors

Which might be possible with using environmental objects to one's advantage,collapsing a wall on them or something.

If 1 player could have the power to take down a whole group,each enemy becomes a threat not to be ignored..

You better hope they need a longer time casting and aiming their meteor purge..

otherwise,if that power would trigger instantly on all 50 confessors,you'll have no chance to escape while they treat you on an instant cleansing shower x50

At least if they need time to cast and aim it ,you might escape just yet..

 

its good that you mention it,not many realize that small scale combat/skirmishes differ from large scale combat.

The game needs slower gameplay elements if it is ever going to support the 'large scale strategic simulation'

Which doesn't mean combat itself needs to be slower.

But for large scale combat something is needed as a mantle on top to support large scale combat

Ever dropped a leaf at an ant colony to observe their behavior?They appear slow to us but they are quite fast actually.

So slower but lethal catapults affect combat dynamics in large scale battles for example.But that is only scratching the surface of it all.

Some slower pace elements are needed in large scale combat

 

I wouldn't say that combat is suffering ,with new engineer MrMike on the team we can rest easy I think.

Animation blending will " fix " a lot already,no worries.

Edited by Tipsy

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As a future tester, the animation speed looks fine to me for now.

 

What bothers me is that the combat looks very static and the control scheme doesn't seem right.

 

The animation locks should be loosened for some attacks, and there should be slow strafing instead of 360° insta-run.

That way the knight could slowly retreat backwards while blocking and the confessor could position herself while charging an attack.

 

This would make the combat more fluid while emphasizing clever positioning.

Edited by bronko

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Well, perhaps certain animations could have a 'windup time' during which the animation can be cancelled. Some animations could allow for limited movement during the animation - enough to make minor adjustments to positioning. Others might just need more speed. 2 seconds doesn't sound like very long, but it can feel like ages if you're watching your team get blown up in the meantime.

 

 Faster animations doesn't necessarily mean the game turns into a twitch fest. Lots of mobas have spells that can be cast instantly but you'll still be holding onto until the perfect moment, rather than just chucking out as fast as humanly possible.

 

 I haven't really watched much of the twitch footage, but I can imagine that any extraneous details in the animations will soon get annoying. Having your elf do a somersault into an attack might look cool, but after seeing it the hundredth time you'll probably be wishing she'd hurry the f*ck up and stop showing off. Basically, people don't like feeling they're not in control of their character for very long. Imagine a spell that takes 10 seconds to charge up before it takes effect, and you can't do anything else whilst casting it. That would feel almost as frustrating to a player as being stunned by an enemy for 10 seconds. Either way, you're unable to react to anything and you might as well be afk for 10 seconds.

Edited by 11nephilim

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As long as the combat isn't like FFXIV. Oh my god, the combat is so slow paced in that game.

May or may not be faster, but it should be more interesting and less monotonous from what we've seen so far.

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Yep... they need to speed up the animations and lock the camera and they have a much better game....

 

Completely agree, with the caveat that I'd be ok with some abilities having a high risk/high reward--i.e. some abilities have a long animation time/lock, when it is to help balance against the power of said ability.  But, currently, too many abilities have long animation times when what you get out of it does not warrant such a penalty.

 

And 100% in agreement about an option to lock the character's facing direction to the crosshair (if that is what you're saying). 

 

To go one further, I'd also like to see the ability to strafe and backpeddle, albeit at a reduced movement speed to regulate/balance their use.

Edited by mourne

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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I'm tired of saying it at this point, but...

 

Don't make the same mistake Tera made. They had the base attack (animation speed) set too low for characters and so many people quit in the first twenty levels because it was boring to play the game. It wasn't until max level with decent gear (some slots provided increased attack speed) that the game became an enjoyable experience.

 

It's so simple.

 

BHS lost tens of millions of dollars because they were too ignorant about their own game.

Edited by Sciocco

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On top of the games listed in my sig, I think they should look at Smite and Black Desert for combat inspiration.  Especially, Black Desert.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

cdinUTh.png

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On top of the games listed in my sig, I think they should look at Smite and Black Desert for combat inspiration.  Especially, Black Desert.

Also after seeing the confessor I actually think they need to turn down their FX a bit... that stuff won't fly in largescale battles... that's one thing that makes BDO look kinda absurd as well.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Agree again.  I definitely don't want the flashy anime style animations OR particle effects of BDO.  But the way the combat itself works looks phenomenal.  Like a 3D multiplayer fighting game, which is what I'd like for CF.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

cdinUTh.png

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