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baerin

Holding on to the Crowfall Vision

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People make gear out to be a bigger issue than it actually is, because they themselves have trouble overcoming it, but there's nothing in the rulebook that says everyone is entitled to get to the top, you should have to earn it, by you know, being good. 

 

...OR by win trading, carries, being part of a big exceptional guild, having hours and hours to commit to playing, etc.  Gear is a potential problem, and the history of MMOs displays that without dispute.

 

Here is what I would like to see (super simplistic because math is hard):

 

Arron (A) vs. Betty (B)

4 tiers of gear (0, 1, 2, 3)

 

Arron fights Betty.  They each have no gear or the starting gear (tier 0), they are the same archetype, there are no advantages in terrain or connection speed, they are at the same skill level, etc.

Out of 100 matches, A wins 50 (%50) and B wins 50 (50%)

 

Now A has tier 1 gear.  B has tier 0.  Other than that, everything is the same.

A wins 55%, B wins 45%

 

Now A has tier 2 gear.  B has tier 0. Other than that, everything is the same.

A wins 60%, B wins 40%

 

Now A has tier 3 gear--the BEST gear in the game.  B has tier 0--the WORST gear in the game.  Other than that, everything is the same.

A wins 65%, B wins 35%.

 

So, the biggest gear disparity the game offers results in Arron beating Betty 13 times out of 20, due to his advantage.  Many games, you put the best gear vs. the worst, and there is no contest, no matter how good the 0 tier player is.

 

I'll leave it up to others to figure out a tier 2 vs tier 3, tier 1 vs tier 2, etc. 

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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...OR by win trading, carries, being part of a big exceptional guild, having hours and hours to commit to playing, etc.  Gear is a potential problem, and the history of MMOs displays that without dispute.

 

Here is what I would like to see (super simplistic because math is hard):

 

Arron (A) vs. Betty (B)

4 tiers of gear (0, 1, 2, 3)

 

Arron fights Betty.  They each have no gear or the starting gear (tier 0), they are the same archetype, there are no advantages in terrain or connection speed, they are at the same skill level, etc.

Out of 100 matches, A wins 50 (%50) and B wins 50 (50%)

 

Now A has tier 1 gear.  B does not.  Other than that, everything is the same.

A wins 55%, B wins 45%

 

Now A has tier 2 gear.  B has tier 0. Other than that, everything is the same.

A wins 60%, B wins 40%

 

Now A has tier 3 gear--the BEST gear in the game.  B has tier 0--the WORST gear in the game.  Other than that, everything is the same.

A wins 65%, B wins 35%.

 

So, the biggest gear disparity the game offers results in Arron beating Betty 13 times out of 20, due to his advantage.  Many games, you put the best gear vs. the worst, and there is no contest, no matter how good the 0 tier player is.

 

I'll leave it up to others to figure out a tier 2 vs tier 3, tier 1 vs tier 2, etc. 

I don't think these types of scenarios really matter though, because the fact that gear upgrades are desirable already creates a pecking order in competition where the good players are a natural barrier of entry for less skilled players to try and climb the ranks...

 

Also gear effectiveness in your scenario should vary based on the skill of the players themselves....

 

If 2 players are completely awful at the game, the one with the significantly better gear should easily win, because neither are really good enough to control their own destiny so gear will determine the outcome.  Not that a completely awful player generally acquires the best gear anyway....

 

Now if 2 really good players have a big gear disparity the one with the bad gear can still rely on their understanding of the game to develop some sorta approach to the obstacle.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I don't think these types of scenarios really matter though, because the fact that gear upgrades are desirable already creates a pecking order in competition where the good players are a natural barrier of entry for less skilled players to try and climb the ranks...

 

Also gear effectiveness in your scenario should vary based on the skill of the players themselves....

 

If 2 players are completely awful at the game, the one with the significantly better gear should easily win, because neither are really good enough to control their own destiny so gear will determine the outcome.  Not that a completely awful player generally acquires the best gear anyway....

 

Now if 2 really good players have a big gear disparity the one with the bad gear can still rely on their understanding of the game to develop some sorta approach to the obstacle.

 

It truly is more complex than my example, I do not dispute that.  However, can we not agree as MMO players that minimizing gear advantage benefits the game? 

 

Large gear disparities occur in games that promote end-game grinding.  "Players need something to reward their renewed subscriptions... hmmm...  I know! A new tier of gear--that's the answer (and it always is the answer)!"  Crowfall by design, presumably, will not promote end-game grinding--at least not to the extent a game like WoW or Archeage does.  There is a middle road between GW and WoW.  Give me gear advantage, but do not make it so extreme as to become THE inevitable deciding factor in the outcome of most combat.       


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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It truly is more complex than my example, I do not dispute that.  However, can we not agree as MMO players that minimizing gear advantage benefits the game?

 

Large gear disparities occur in games that promote end-game grinding.  "Players need something to reward their renewed subscriptions... hmmm...  I know! A new tier of gear--that's the answer (and it always is the answer)!"  Crowfall by design, presumably, will not promote end-game grinding--at least not to the extent a game like WoW or Archeage does.  There is a middle road between GW and WoW.  Give me gear advantage, but do not make it so extreme as to become THE inevitable deciding factor in the outcome of most combat.       

Well I honestly disagree on multiple fronts....  I'm not worried about gear advantage because aside from some extreme cases with p2w eastern developed mmorpgs, i've never seen it as an impossible obstacle dating back to the very beginning of mmorpgs...  Yes gear can matter a lot and vs players who aren't proficient it matters more because they don't even know how to begin to address certain types of challenges cause they simply aren't proficient, but it's also a good challenge that exists to add more spice to the game world.

 

WoW isn't really a case of extreme gear issues tbh, there are very few examples where something was so OP that it caused the good players to take notice, most of it was generally very reasonable.... 

 

MMORPGs need all sorts of variables... gear needs to be a significant factor, player skill needs to be a significant factor, the environment needs to be a significant factor....

 

I understand what you are saying though, perhaps I just feel you aren't generous enough in how effective you want gear to be.  I want it to be as effective as it can be while not eclipsing player skill....


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Gear needs to matter enough that it's worth it to craft in the first place - you should be able to feel the difference. Keep in mind that there's the whole other issue to consider of a class matchup, too.  If you choose your fights well, their gear won't matter near as much.  

 

I would assume people are going to fight over resources, and a good way to make them do that is to make what you craft with them valuable.  In this case, gear. 

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Gear needs to matter enough that it's worth it to craft in the first place - you should be able to feel the difference. Keep in mind that there's the whole other issue to consider of a class matchup, too.  If you choose your fights well, their gear won't matter near as much.  

 

I would assume people are going to fight over resources, and a good way to make them do that is to make what you craft with them valuable.  In this case, gear. 

 

I agree.  However, simply making gear be an advantage--even a modest one--would insure that it "matters."  Winning teams will be the ones that succeed at claiming resources.  Although, just how much of an advantage remains to be seen.  My vote is that it isn't a major factor in deciding victory--a factor, to be sure, but not "Oh crud!  That team is in tier 4 gear--we can't win, run for it!"


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Yeah, he's like that normally

*she

 

and you guys let go so you're falling off the cliff that is the crowfall vision that everyone else is struggling to hang on

 

make another thread or two about leaving the forums just to be safe imo


The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
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