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ilfar

Gathering Model Idea

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I should be sleeping, instead I'm typing this up, because my brain came up with it while I was trying to get to sleep, and it won't leave me alone till I write it down.  >.<

 

Everyone loves a complex combat model.  Try doing the same thing for resource gathering and everyone loves to complain.  Complain enough, and you get the current state of WoW resource gathering...  Or you get the neutered ice harvesting Eve Online now sports - all those skills and items you can use to reduce your cycle time, but who needs em now?

 

So, twofold objective - Keep it simple, but find ways to shoehorn in complexity for those that want it.  (does anyone but me actually WANT complex resource gathering?)

 

Basic resource gathering ability - hit it, resource acquired.  Amount equal to a badly placed token from below.  Chance to get advance resource type based on gathering skill that boosts number of bonus tiles below.  Amount gathered increased by skill that boosts total number of tiles.  Gathering time reduced by skill that reduces number of blocking tiles.

 

Advanced gathering ability - You have a grid (squares, hexes, whatever, it's a block of tiles of some description).  This grid has normal tiles, blocking tiles, and bonus tiles.  Onto this grid you place shapes.  Every shape has a centre-point it rotates around.  A shape can be placed anywhere on the grid so long as all the shape tiles are over grid tiles, and none of the shape tiles are over grid blocking tiles.  Possible exploit - activate minigame and immediately place a tile and finish to avoid resource gathering time?

 

You get resources based on the number of tiles you place on the grid in total.  You get advanced resources for every shape centre-point you place on grid bonus tiles.

 

Placing shapes is a player skill-based event.  Available shapes are based on a gathering skill.  Total number of tiles, blocking tiles, and bonus tiles in the grid are based on gathering skill - assuming multiple gathering skills, otherwise fixed grid size and tile count probably best.  It is normal to have more shapes than can fit on the grid, or to have fewer shapes than needed to fill the grid.

 

Based on the concept that a quick gather of a resource, probably done during riskier situations where standing still for a while is up there on the list of stupid things to do, would be trading maximum possible gains for a lower but more certain gain.  Minigame has higher returns, but at the cost of being distracted and maybe ending up very dead instead of very rich.  Possibly make the minigame the only way to gather advanced resources (other than the usual what's yours is mine method).  Very loosely based on the Ingress portal hacking versus glyph hacking method.


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The minigame idea has been discussed quite a bit in this section.  For folks that come from more intricate SWG like crafting experiences mini games are pretty much non-starters.

There's no way at this point to discuss crafting in any real way as there's no info on crafting.   We have a few bare bones concepts (see the crafting thread in the dev announcement section and the crafting FAQ's) but other than that there's not much to go on.

 

While I doubt that crafting will be swayed at this point by ideas from players, I'm also aware that it's possible.  However, I hope that this particular idea and any minigame approach that artificially creates structure by tossing in random required actions is not a part of crafting.

Annnnnd here's where I am supposed to say, "keep posting about your ideas!" but tbh until there's more crafting info there's not much point in going down any particular road until they've at least set the landscape.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I had a gathering model idea, but all the models I gathered complained until I had to let them go.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I'm not talking about crafting, I'm talking specifically about gathering.  Your player-run economy is going to be a very shallow pool to play in if there aren't at least some thoughts about the mechanics even this early.  How resources are gathered will affect how your worlds are generated, for a start.

 

As for minigames, I'm not aiming for an interface you spend all your time in.  The current suggestions is too complex, yes, but something similar that requires a few seconds of player skill on top of character skill for a boosted resource income would be appreciated by THIS gatherer at least.

 

Bear in mind, assuming there is actually the ability to specialise in gathering/crafting, I intend to be playing in the Dregs.  I'm not your run of the mill carebear type.  I'm going to be concentrating on being the best at gathering resources, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be a walking bank for the more warlike individuals out there if I can help it.


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There are examples of amazing gathering systems such as the one in SWG where you have to "prospect" different material types but, they've already stated that they have no intention of creating a crafting simulator.

 

As far as we know most of the materials that are used for crafting will come out of points of interest such as an abandoned mine. You may not have any control over how much you extract or even be able to manually extract resources yourself at all (even though that would be unlikely).

 

We just don't know the direction they will go in right now.

 

All I'm stating is that I'm completely opposed to arbitrary mini-game style features in the game....period....for any profession. I'd rather see fishing that was based on a timer than fishing where I had to click on a bauble. That may make gathering too boring for some people but, part of the enjoyment of gathering and crafting is the relaxation aspect of it.

For me, my fondest memories are walking along the side of a mountain in UO, using a shovel or a pick...wacking at the wall for generic ore. I used an item and I clicked a location and then it did a success check and put the resources in my bags. The only thing I had to worry about was how much weight I had and if I was in danger of dying to PK's.

For most people the satisfaction of gathering comes in the statistical aspect of it. Gathering a certain amount so that guild x can make item y. How much of Z ore can I hold before I need to make a bank run. The feeling of contributing something tangible to the universe that you enjoy being a part of. If you want a minigame because you're too bored with the simple mechanics then open a game of minesweeper while you're gathering.

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If the gathering mechanic is boring, I run alts.  Of course, opening THAT can of worms gets some amazingly entertaining drama.  ;)  There's a picture of my computer setup lying round somewhere, as an example of just what I'm talking about.  :P

 

I'm interested in seeing if there's actually anyone else in existence who enjoys gathering, and more interested in seeing if anyone wants a more dedicated option for it.  So far, the answer is a fairly resounding NOPE.  So be it, I'm not going to wail and complain.  Especially when there's no information one way or the other on the whole system beyond some general placeholder info regarding the fact there will be resources and some of the ways to acquire them.  I'm not a designer in any way, shape or form, especially not for Crowfall - which makes my 'ideas' on game design considerably less...  valuable isn't really the right word, but it conveys the general gist of it.

 

To be clear - I'm not talking a mandatory minigame, I'm talking one that would be entirely optional, AND have the possibility of decreasing what you get if you bugger it up.  Most of the time you are NOT going to want to stand still and stare at nothing for loooong seconds with lord knows how many very dangerous people around you.  Hell, the worst result wouldn't be an immediate gank, it would be having some stealthy buggers watching and waiting till you head home with full bags before hitting you.


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I LOVE gathering...but I would hate to play a mini game just to gather. I really enjoyed FFXIV gathering. I'm bad at explaining but basically (if you didn't know already) it gave you options of different materials from one node. The gear you wore effected your gathering success and you also had abilities that would help your success or amount of materials gathered. The abilities consumed points, which generated again over time or through a potion and gear also increased amounts of points you had. I haven't played in forever, but it was something like that. More about stats and abilities instead of a mini game.

Also some rare mats were only available during certain times, which I HATE since I have a full time job and missed out on them usually.

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I'd prefer the "game" to be in finding the materials to gather rather than the process itself. Be that in prospecting, finding fertile ground or the management of gatherers (NPC's / machines / structures). An actual mini-game though... I'm not a fan, sorry.

Edited by M0rdred

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I'd prefer the "game" to be in finding the materials to gather rather than the process itself. Be that in prospecting, finding fertile ground or the management of gatherers (NPC's / machines / structures). An actual mini-game though... I'm not a fan, sorry.

 

Finding the resources when they're more than just pre-seeded nodes on a map is a mini-game of sorts too!  :P  It's also what I'd love to see out of gathering.  There's a reason finding diamonds in minecraft is so much bloody fun ;)  Use resources to make the tools to get the resources to make the tools, etc, etc.  And having the good stuff in the places no sane individual goes could get interesting too.  Course, I'm not entirely sure 'sane' is at any way applicable to most of the incipient playerbase :3

 

Having crafting tie into exploration could get interesting?  Actually having to recognise the conditions for a resource to occur in an area would be a neat way to have player skill come into it...


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