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xcomvic

What Payment Model Would You Like To See?

Best Business Model?  

1,100 members have voted

  1. 1. What would you prefer to see as a business model other than Free to Play!

    • Subscription Model ($5.00/month)
    • Subscription Model ($7.50/month)
    • Subscription Model ($10.00+/month)
    • Buy to Play with no Cash Shop (Pay once and for each expansion)
    • Buy to Play WITH Cash Shop (Guild Wars 2)
    • Something totally different (Please post your reason below)


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and @xaine

I don't think we will see bind on pickup equip, so all the WoW comparisons are irrelevant in my mind atm.

 

Quite possibly, but my example extends beyond just Wow's way of doing things.

 

Don't make in game currency = power.

 

Let it be the ability to have to grind less, afford more sets of gear, or whatever - but don't let it grant you moment to moment direct advantages over other people.

 

Archeage messed that up, with everything being BOE and having extremely expensive and powerful weapons and armour in the game.

 

Darkfall - it was fairly easy to get the 'best' gear in the game, and even then the stat advantage wasn't massive between tiers - if someone was broke and someone was loaded, it didn't matter - because the extra gold the one guy had couldn't buy him any more direct power in a 1v1.

Edited by xaine

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That's the only way you can succeed as an MMO in this day and age. The graphics already seem a little outdated ( you can call it cartoony if you want but the real word is outdated ) and considering it seems to be a hardcore pvp game I wouldn't expect millions of casuals to flock to it.

 

So if they have a good business team they should know that there's little chance of succeeding with pay to play or subs.

 

As long as they make it f2p with an ingame cash shop that gives cosmetic rewards it's all good. 

I disagree with your, apparently empirically based, conclusion.

 

Make a good game and people will pay for it. Especially all of the of the SB and UO players who actually have jobs now and are dying for a good game. 

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Darkfall - it was fairly easy to get the 'best' gear in the game, and even then the stat advantage wasn't massive between tiers - if someone was broke and someone was loaded, it didn't matter - because the extra gold the one guy had couldn't buy him any more direct power in a 1v1.

 

I don't think we played the same game...

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I don't think we played the same game...

 

In both Darkfall and Darkfall: UW - it was extremely easy to get gear that made you competitive.

The start of Darkfall was a complete broken mess, so yes - someone running around in Dragon armour is going to have an advantage over someone in Banded. However, someone who hacks is going to have an advantage over someone who doesn't, and what certain guilds did in the start of Darkfall gave them such an advantage that compared to normal people, they might as well have been hacking because of the advantage it gave them - so it depends how far you want to take that arguement.

 

As Darkfall progressed, and really right from the start of Unholy Wars - gearing yourself wasn't an issue, and having more gold didn't make you stronger.

 

Compare that to Archeage, where you can get yourself a weapon with 2x the DPS of other people if you pump enough RL cash into the game. This effectively allows you to one-shot people.

Edited by xaine

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As others have said, I either hope it's a one off payment with a cosmetic cash shop to sustain itself or monthly sub with no micro-transactions at all.

 

I can't stand gold spammers, bots and other things that flood F2P games, usually a buy to play or monthly sub scares a lot of them away. Don't get me wrong, I know these things still happen in these payment models but no way near to the extent of a F2P game. 


There's only room for one Boss. And one Snake...

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In both Darkfall and Darkfall: UW - it was extremely easy to get gear that made you competitive.

The start of Darkfall was a complete broken mess, so yes - someone running around in Dragon armour is going to have an advantage over someone in Banded. However, someone who hacks is going to have an advantage over someone who doesn't, and what certain guilds did in the start of Darkfall gave them such an advantage that compared to normal people, they might as well have been hacking because of the advantage it gave them - so it depends how far you want to take that arguement.

 

As Darkfall progressed, and really right from the start of Unholy Wars - gearing yourself wasn't an issue, and having more gold didn't make you stronger.

 

Compare that to Archeage, where you can get yourself a weapon with 2x the DPS of other people if you pump enough RL cash into the game. This effectively allows you to one-shot people.

 

I never touched UW... giving Aventurine even a single cent just felt wrong

 

but getting gera in darkfall was easy... ya the "standard" stuff, up to maybe plate, r5 weapons... alright

 

but the time it took, to get the gear, to compete with the top-notched geared players was obscene. r5 skinning mats for enchants, crafted r7 weapons (I'll give you the r7 GSwords that dropped), dragon armor...

to get that stuff and be able to afford to lose it, sorry but that doesn't even come close to "easy" in my book.

 

There's a reason a lot of players bought gold for DF.

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This would be my list of preferred models for Crowfall from favorite on down...

 

Subscription based model.

Sub based with fluff/cosmetic in addition

F2P with a cash shop that has only fluff and cosmetic items 

F2P with a cash shop that has fluff/cosmetic items and maybe timer savers 

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I think in this day of age a game having a monthly subscription shouldn't be as taboo as it has been the las few year. Games that revolve micro transactions will lead to companies ineherently focusing on making money and just focussing on how to increase micro transaction sales instead of just focusing on making a badass game


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This is one of the harder decisions to make when making an MMO, because either way you choose there will a good percentage of your market that will be upset. With games like ESO likely going F2P, SWTOR  is F2P, and more this puts more pressure on Crowfall. While the game will come out and have the hype of a new MMO that will go away in the first 3 months and other big name MMOs will be coming out around the same time.

 

If the devs go with a P2P model, you have to present a great reason for gamers to pay a sub when they can just go play other games for free. ArcheAge and WildStar both have a structure that allows players to pay for a sub with in-game currency. I can see Crowfall launching with a similar model.

 

The people that are saying P2P, why aren't you playing the games still that are P2P? I'm currently playing two P2P MMOs, but thinking about the F2P option for one of them. Its just easier for people with families, jobs, both, or just a really limited schedule to play a F2P game.

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Simple question. 

 

Not really.  

 

#1 - It has become apparent that most of the people who comment on F2P here don't understand what F2P means, so it really isn't that easy of a question.

 

#2 - No one likes "Pay 2 Win," especially not the ArtCraft guys, and F2P is not P2W.  If you think it is, or are too lazy to figure it out, your feedback on the subject isn't going to be worth much.  If AC decides on a F2P or hybrid model, I have no doubt in my mind it wouldn't be P2W, but as #1 states, some people can't seem to grasp the difference.  

 

#3 - There are plenty of examples of F2P being extremely successful and being done well (the most successful games out there right now).  So as a model, if designed right, it is great for both game maker and game player.

 

If people have had issues with any implementation or execution of F2P, they should simply state what part of that experience they disliked instead of blindly condemning a viable monetization model they obviously don't understand.   Addressing some of the ones brought up most often here:

 

- Bots/gold sellers: Are in every game that has earned currencies/rewards and progression, so it has nothing to do with F2P

- Maturity of audience:  Obviously with lower barriers to entry, you're going to get a younger audience.  It can be an issue if not dealt with up-front, but it can be dealt with, and on a large scale

- Pay 2 Win: Dead horse.  Anyone making a competitive PVP game knows that anything even remotely considered P2W would be a massive issue.  Just look at the outcry about H1Z1's air drops.  Those drops are so heavily contested, that someone spending money, to get a drop, is more likely to give it up than they are to keep it.  I don't particularly care for the fact that it artificially generates a great deal of material based animosity, which the game frankly doesn't need, but given how quickly you die and start from scratch in that game, it was really blown out of proportion.  

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Not really.  

 

 

#2 - No one likes "Pay 2 Win," especially not the ArtCraft guys, and F2P is not P2W.  If you think it is, or are too lazy to figure it out, your feedback on the subject isn't going to be worth much.  If AC decides on a F2P or hybrid model, I have no doubt in my mind it wouldn't be P2W, but as #1 states, some people can't seem to grasp the difference.  

 

 

 

The problem is P2W means a lot of different things to a lot of different people so there will always be players butting heads on the subject. 

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The problem is P2W means a lot of different things to a lot of different people so there will always be players butting heads on the subject. 

I like to call it Pay to progress/ skip content. And in a MMO where progression is part of the game. I will stay away from X game. Is it P2W? Not so much, but it ruins the feeling and the scope of X game.

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I genuinely hope not. Even if it's not P2W, I don't care. I don't even want cosmetic options in my game, purchased from real money. That ruins the immersion factor. Cosmetic items should be player crafted too. Sand in the box.. it's important. 

 

$50 box price, one month free, $15 per month after. No microtransactions of any kind whatsoever.  This is the fairest business model by far, imo. 

 

People need to get something in their head:

 

EVERY MMO has gold sellers and people will buy from them. which means every game is p2w. Be it items, accounts or just cash...

 

so stop using that as an excuse/argument

 

Only in a limited sense, and it's highly risky to do this. To make it official means it becomes P2W at kaioken x50. 

Edited by unknownxv

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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Not really.  

 

#1 - It has become apparent that most of the people who comment on F2P here don't understand what F2P means, so it really isn't that easy of a question.

 

 

#3 - There are plenty of examples of F2P being extremely successful and being done well (the most successful games out there right now).  So as a model, if designed right, it is great for both game maker and game player.

 

If people have had issues with any implementation or execution of F2P, they should simply state what part of that experience they disliked instead of blindly condemning a viable monetization model they obviously don't understand.  

 

 

 

For the sake of not repeating myself here you go

Edited by stevencolbear

If you can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffle em with truthiness

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F2P and P2W will ruin the game, definitely, considering the complexity and it's nature, *Cough* ArcheAge *Cough* besides, it's pretty much known from sales that P2P is the way forward. Box (Digital box) purchase or sub are definitely the best way to go about things.


Last Call (A community guild for friendly peoples waiting out for CrowFall :P): http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/888-last-call-a-community-for-friendly-people/

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/facepalm

 

all these people keep saying F2P = P2W...

 

anyway, they should just do what Tera does and be F2P with a Sub choice Tera isn't even that great of a game and it's still doing great

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/facepalm

 

all these people keep saying F2P = P2W...

 

anyway, they should just do what Tera does and be F2P with a Sub choice Tera isn't even that great of a game and it's still doing great

Different types of game work best with different payment modules right. So the company that makes Tera may have found F2P with subscription module available works for them, but that's because the majority of content they have available doesn't make it so that bots, goldspammers and repeat offenders can ruin things completely for players, Trion went for the same thing when they brough ArcheAge to NA and EU.. That really didn't work for them because of the game concept and the community. We can't expect F2P to work for every game.... And P2W.. Well, only the people who want to spend ridiculous amounts of money won't disagree with it. :3

 

As for why people keep saying F2P = P2W is because the MAJORITY (Not all) of F2P games include P2W features, or just a cosmetic shop because that's the only other way for the devs to make money while the game stays as TRUE F2P.

Edited by pragmaticjoker

Last Call (A community guild for friendly peoples waiting out for CrowFall :P): http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/888-last-call-a-community-for-friendly-people/

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I prefer Initial Game + Monthly Sub + Yearly Expansions. If they feel like they need to bring in more income, the GW2 gold system seems to be the lesser of all evils.


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