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Hunger Dome 1.0 data analysis postmortem - Official discussion thread


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I think part of the reason, beyond the fact that it's the A branch, that onslaught 3A is more common is that running away is so damn effective that the knockdown becomes very important to stop it.  If I couldn't use the charge up shield slam ability after the knock down (or if I already had), I would usually go into an Onslaught 3B... assuming I had the mana at that point.  It's just really low on the priority list in comparison to making them stand still or be slow.

 

Edit: As far as key binds, I would probably use either Shift+<key> or Control+<key> for my alternate combos, given the choice.  I may get used to it, but I think I would find 'E' just too overloaded.  Depends, though on the number of combos - too many and the hand acrobatics would be too much.

Edited by yamix
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"Now that we are switching to a client-based controller, it means the server pill will already be that much tighter and responsive to any network latency."

Thank god.

 

I now ask all these questions:

  • Do people not understand the alternate E for a combo?
    • If so, is the UI unclear?
    • Are the QWERTY players skewing the data?
  • Is the E button too awkward to press?
    • Would a remapping option solve this?
  • Is the time to press the button too small?
  • Are the B line of powers weaker than the A line?  

 

A combination of all... but it has also something to do with animation locks (imho).

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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Is the time to press the button too small?

 

I think it was. Certainly for Flames of Truth of the Confessor. When my latency was high I had much more problems firing of those combo's. Sometimes even the combo windows didn't pop up.

Edited by Canth

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I think part of the reason, beyond the fact that it's the A branch, that onslaught 3A is more common is that running away is so damn effective that the knockdown becomes very important to stop it.  If I couldn't use the charge up shield slam ability after the knock down (or if I already had), I would usually go into an Onslaught 3B... assuming I had the mana at that point.

I want to echo this. Onslaught 2A and 2B are basically the same, unless it was changed and I missed it. I don't really see a reason to use one over the other.

 

Onslaught 3A is waaaaay more useful than Onslaught 3B. Once the glow was added to indicate when someone was immune to CC (and once I learned to recognize it), I would use 3B instead in those cases. 

 

Once the Ranger and other stealth characters get added to the game, the bleed may be important, I don't know. It only lasts 3 seconds and I don't know what sort of re-stealth mechanics there will be. It would probably make sense to move the snare off of the basic attack combo and put it on Onslaught 3B. That way, players can choose between the knockdown and the snare. I think you'll get a more even use distribution that way.

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I now ask all these questions:

  • Do people not understand the alternate E for a combo?  Understood.
    • If so, is the UI unclear?
    • Are the QWERTY players skewing the data?
  • Is the E button too awkward to press? Yes it is awkward.  Much easier to spam 4 4 4 for instance on the Knight.
    • Would a remapping option solve this? Doesn't help the spammers.  In the heat of the battle...
  • Is the time to press the button too small?
  • Are the B line of powers weaker than the A line?  For Knight, the Knockdown (A line) was always preferable to an AOE bleed (B line) that may or may not do improved damage over the CC.  

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poor legionnaire, the played bar is so low! *tear*

 

Where is the stat for the number of times that invisible chest with the guaranteed epic was looted? :)

 

It's neat to see how the knights abilities were used so much more in comparison to the other's basic attacks and abiltiies

 

I admit i just went 4 4 4 on the legionnaire because it was easier, but would have went into the other path if it mattered more. The keys were fine although I would rebind if given the chance. The timing was fine, longer and you start to lose the strategy of stepping away from someone to get out of their combo, only to have them get closer to you again and start where you left off

Edited by oberon
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Really nice, and useful information share. Thanks.

 

  • I peferred the first version with the "rngineers" typo, sometimes what we do to fix an issue can feel like it's RNG! ;-D

In response to some of the questions posed;

  • Do people not understand the alternate E for a combo?
  • Is the E button too awkward to press?
    • Would a remapping option solve this?
  • Is the time to press the button too small?
  • Are the B line of powers weaker than the A line?  

I think we generally get the use of the E combo alternative ... I have no issues with that being the button, but yes - being able to map custom keys at some stage in the lifecycle of the product would be welcome.

 

The time window is fine. It's an action combat MMO, we should reward fluidity of end-user combo's ... otherwise this just becomes another mash the same set of buttons over and over (e.g. TERA).

 

Personally, my testing windows were somewhat limited, and can be broken down into:

  1. First couple of test cycles....was the "OMGWTFBBQ" moment of actually being in the testing phases and seeing a delivered product, and acclimating to the classes. This lasted well into the second/third session for me.
  2. I then returned from a 2 week work trip and performance had improved dramatically, which allowed more considered use of the classes, and skills.
  3. The final week of testing was where I felt more at home. I'd chosen my class of preference (knight), and was learning the combo's and skills (dmg, mitigation, pulls, heals, etc).

There was never a moment in the hunger dome where I could truly say exactly what my damage output was, most of the fights were a flurry of crazy activity interspersed with kiting / regen periods. I think some of us provided this feedback to say it's hard to see exactly your damage output when there's a cluster of bodies fighting.

 

My belief - for me, the knight staple was primary attack, pursuit, sprint (it's all about getting that loot early), spamming the dmg shield each time it was up, and working through the onslaught chain. I barely blocked, ever - the mitigation didnt feel high enough to stand there whilst someone beat my face down (e.g. a fessor can continue to nuke me all day, if I block I will eventually die ... therefore I need to run/attack/reposition, etc).

 

Either way - awesome stats, I see us all become more fluent with the classes, as time progresses!

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What? Game data can be tracked? How are OP/Weak classes, abilities, builds, gear able to go unchanged for months, years, forever despite player feedback? This must be new technology.

 

/s

 

Glad to see the data being looked at so early on and questions being asked. Sometimes that's all it takes to make a poor experience into an amazing one.

 


 

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hhmmm, I always went 4 E E on the legionnaire...

 

the first E had more damage (and equal heal) and the 2nd one basically never hit anyways, so I ignored that one...

If I had been able to, I would've done 4E4 though.

 

 

I've been using the E key for weapon switches in FPS game since basically forever, so it wasn't a big deal for me. 4 4 4 felt weird, because of the hand positioning and the slightly impaired movement because of that.

 

 

I dunno why this even an issue atm though, because once you allow people to rebind their keys, these numbers will look drastically different.

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Continuing the HD 1.0 post-mortem theme, I did an interview with MMORPG that went up this morning:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1214/feature/10199/Crowfall-Todd-Coleman-on-Crowfalls-First-PreAlpha-Lessons-Learned.html

 

Todd

J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

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Continuing the HD 1.0 post-mortem theme, I did an interview with MMORPG that went up this morning:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1214/feature/10199/Crowfall-Todd-Coleman-on-Crowfalls-First-PreAlpha-Lessons-Learned.html

 

Todd

 

The color Champion render is lookin' mighty fine - can't wait for the test-drive come November!

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Is there any way to track the ability usage from test to test?

 

From a viewer standpoint I saw more people over time using more than basic attacks as responsiveness got better and players got used to the abilities they were using.

 

Curious if the last few tests saw a bigger proportion of ability usage compared to the first couple tests.

 

REQT

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I must have been an outlier since I hardly ever used the left click attacks on the Confessor and Knight. I basically never needed to use them on the Knight and with the Confessor I usually only used them for long ranged attacks against moving targets.

 

Also with combo popularity a lot of it has to do with the ease of use. People love to spam so the more powerful abilities should be harder combos in my opinion.

 

4, 4, 4 is incredibly easy for obvious reasons

4, E, E is pretty easy since all you have to do is pay attention to start the initial animation once then spam E.

4, E, 4 is considerably harder than the other 2 since you have to be much more aware of your animations throughout the entire combo. You can't just spam because you'll end up messing it up. 

Edited by Zybak
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Do people not understand the alternate E for a combo?
 
Answer: I understood the combo's and why they were there. However I didn't really understand the advantage of using one over another. 
 
If so, is the UI unclear?

Answer: I think there should be a more clear and concise way to know which combo does what. Maybe even a tooltip that gives you hints on when you should use it. I found it difficult to know which attack did more damage and it wasn't easy to find that data while in game. I think another thing I just have a habit of using my MMO mouse for my main attacks and I haven't got use to the E key yet for combo's. But I'm not against using the E key.
 
Are the QWERTY players skewing the data?
 
Answer: No comment
 
Is the E button too awkward to press?
 
Answer: Its not too awkward to press. But it was much easier to press 4, then 4 again instead of another combo key because I didn't know the clear advantages to using another combo. Obviously if this game were in a more final state I would take the time to learn the differences and seek out the answers to my questions.
 
Would a remapping option solve this?
 
Answer: We should absolutely have the ability to remap any key, that way we can play "our" way. That way maybe when I press the 4 key, my next combo choices can be 4, Shift+4, Cntrl+Shift+4. That would be more fluid for my type of play style, but for others it might not be. So it would be nice to have options.
 
Is the time to press the button too small?

Answer: No. I'm in my early 30s and can in no way compete with the sharp reflexes of these kids today, yet I felt there was plenty of time to execute the combo. I just need more time to map out combo's in my head, and I need more data to work with on the fly to differentiate the combo's.

EDIT: Maybe you can add an option in the game that makes the combo menu pop up with more data that tells us the damage, and what it does. Then when we learn what that ability does we can turn that off in a UI option.
 
Are the B line of powers weaker than the A line?      
 
Answer: I cant answer this. Not something I really paid any attention to.
Edited by ctark
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Continuing the HD 1.0 post-mortem theme, I did an interview with MMORPG that went up this morning:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1214/feature/10199/Crowfall-Todd-Coleman-on-Crowfalls-First-PreAlpha-Lessons-Learned.html

 

Todd

Totally unconcerned with greyboxing - anyone who was scared away will likely see newer footage of the game as it comes out and watch newer game-play when its available.  Nobody who got scared away and won't come back when the graphics and overlays are installed was ever going to play.

Edited by mctan
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