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Localization or de-localization of trade


vucar
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Maybe this is a non-issue and I'm misunderstanding, so i'll try my best to explain how I envision EK's to affect crafting and trade and then if i'm wrong, someone can cite me the talking point or video where its better explained:

 

Everyone can theoretically have their own, safe little set-up in the eternal kingdoms, free from the fear of loss, thus giving them the name eternal kingdoms. Everyone can set their own taxes and rules in these EKs, which suggests they are instanced and separated, as I find it hard to imagine walking through a field and suddenly full-loot unrestricted pvp is abruptly allowed or prohibited at some arbitrary line.

 

So if we establish that everyone has these isolated areas to themselves... where does that leave dedicated crafters setting up shops for their goods? Will there be thousands of mini-instances to sift through to find Famous Swordsmith Bob's eternal kingdom, so that you can find his shop, so that you can see what he has available?

 

Or will the largest of the clans establishing an EK have spaces for crafters to set up shop for a tax? Why would crafters pay a tax if they can set up their own shop in their own EK tax-free? Lets say for argument sake it costs more to have your own EK space just for your own shop than it would cost to be taxed and have a shop in Large Clan A's EK. So now how do you pick which EK to set up shop in? There will be Large Clan A's EK, but also ,B's ,C's,D's ... etc. 

 

Does this become then a bidding war by the large clans to set the lowest tax to get the most and best crafters in their city? Even if its at the most minimal tax possible, surely at some point space will run out and the crafters will have to go elsewhere. But can a host clan decide at any time to uproot a crafter's shop and kick them out? What happens to their wares?

 

These are the things that keep me up at night.

 

Not really though, im not planning on crafting, but the entire idea of EKs as it was presented originally sounded like it would segregate a lot of players and traders into their own microcosms where no one actually interacts that frequently if they're outside a clan.

 

Discuss

aka honeybear

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Maybe this is a non-issue and I'm misunderstanding, so i'll try my best to explain how I envision EK's to affect crafting and trade and then if i'm wrong, someone can cite me the talking point or video where its better explained:

 

Everyone can theoretically have their own, safe little set-up in the eternal kingdoms, free from the fear of loss, thus giving them the name eternal kingdoms. Everyone can set their own taxes and rules in these EKs, which suggests they are instanced and separated, as I find it hard to imagine walking through a field and suddenly full-loot unrestricted pvp is abruptly allowed or prohibited at some arbitrary line.

 

Correct

 

So if we establish that everyone has these isolated areas to themselves... where does that leave dedicated crafters setting up shops for their goods? Will there be thousands of mini-instances to sift through to find Famous Swordsmith Bob's eternal kingdom, so that you can find his shop, so that you can see what he has available?

 

If you know him by name you can probably find out information about which EK he resides in and find it on the list pretty easily if he wants it to be so...

 

Or will the largest of the clans establishing an EK have spaces for crafters to set up shop for a tax? Why would crafters pay a tax if they can set up their own shop in their own EK tax-free? Lets say for argument sake it costs more to have your own EK space just for your own shop than it would cost to be taxed and have a shop in Large Clan A's EK. So now how do you pick which EK to set up shop in? There will be Large Clan A's EK, but also ,B's ,C's,D's ... etc. 

 

The largest clans might want to get the best crafters to sell in their EK to draw more traffic there... kinda like a mall...  If a crafter can make their own EK with the best crafted goods more power to them, but it seems more likely that the best crafters will be the ones with a lot of people helping to gather resources and supply them. 

 

Does this become then a bidding war by the large clans to set the lowest tax to get the most and best crafters in their city? Even if its at the most minimal tax possible, surely at some point space will run out and the crafters will have to go elsewhere. But can a host clan decide at any time to uproot a crafter's shop and kick them out? What happens to their wares?

 

The crafting economy is meant to be competitive, i am sure we will see tons of different tactics used towards economic success....

 

These are the things that keep me up at night.

 

Not really though, im not planning on crafting, but the entire idea of EKs as it was presented originally sounded like it would segregate a lot of players and traders into their own microcosms where no one actually interacts that frequently if they're outside a clan.

 

The EKs seem like they will be more attractive for the rulesets with high import as people will want to bring in a lot of good stuff to give themselves the best possible chance to win a campaign... 

 

Discuss

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Pretty much it'll be survival of the fittest, IMO. Those with the best stuff and infrastructure will do well, those that don't put in as much effort not so much.

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The whole point of the vassal system is to allow other people to reside in your EK. Crafters will likely look for EKs with high traffic and low taxes to set up shop in, to make the best profit. If it's just you in your EK, people might easily overlook you. Basically, you pay taxes in exchange for publicity. You have to spend money to make money. We'll likely see a hand full of EKs emerge as commerce hubs, with crafters vying for land in them. It goes without saying that that will be nice for the player that owns the EK.

 

Obviously, this won't apply to all EKs though. Some will be guild cities where people don't care about profiting off their residents, others will completely abandon their own EKs. It really just comes down to what the players want to do.

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Pretty much it'll be survival of the fittest, IMO. Those with the best stuff and infrastructure will do well, those that don't put in as much effort not so much.

 

Not exactly. The economy is pretty much self-contained for the most part. If compared to Eve Online, this would be like restricting 1.0 traders to sell anything to 0 sec guilds while allowing 1.0 traders to buy from them. This was introduced by the dev team because they want to prevent long term domination in guild oriented campaigns due to previous accumulation of wealth:

 

RuzFgMs.jpg

Edited by Qbs
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Not exactly. The economy is pretty much self-contained for the most part. If compared to Eve Online, this would be like restricting 1.0 traders to sell anything to 0 sec guilds while allowing 1.0 traders to buy from them. This was introduced by the dev team because they want to prevent long term domination in guild oriented campaigns due to previous accumulation of wealth:

 

 

RuzFgMs.jpg

 

 

You should have win/kneel/lose rather than just win/lose, because otherwise there are a lot of items that you aren't accounting for.

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Am I wrong...

 

To speculate that more difficult campaigns will have higher rewards? It would then make sense, the rule sets would become increasingly difficult as greater opportunities present themselves. My guess is, the "Import Rules" will become more difficult as well. I'm thinking that Guilds won't be able to take much (if anything) into the hardcore campaigns.  

 

These guilds will need to take dedicated crafters into these campaigns to forge weapons, armor, defensive structures, and siege equipment. I know this makes a lot of assumptions, but it seems to fit at the moment.

 

Your thoughts?

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Am I wrong...

 

To speculate that more difficult campaigns will have higher rewards? It would then make sense, the rule sets would become increasingly difficult as greater opportunities present themselves. My guess is, the "Import Rules" will become more difficult as well. I'm thinking that Guilds won't be able to take much (if anything) into the hardcore campaigns.  

 

These guilds will need to take dedicated crafters into these campaigns to forge weapons, armor, defensive structures, and siege equipment. I know this makes a lot of assumptions, but it seems to fit at the moment.

 

Your thoughts?

I don't see any assumptions in that statement. ACE has already told us that campaigns in the Shadow and the Dregs have better resources and harsher import and export rules.

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Also I don't think that all of it is set in stone. If I recall correctly from my months of lurking there was discussion about imports being independent from campaign type. For example Campaign Dregs 1 could have import with lower export while Dreg 2 no export and high import. It's all really up in the air now. 

I'd definitely like to see a demand for crafted goods, so I'm hoping for slightly more import over no import.

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My take?

 

The best crafters will rise to the top, regardless of where they set up shop.

 

Back in the days of SWG, there was an Armorsmith that could make the very best armor in the game. He set up shop on in the middle of nowhere on Tattooine, far away from the nearest spaceport.

 

Honestly, it didn't matter. He had more business than he could handle, and he could charge whatever he wanted because he was the absolute best.

 

In addition, he never joined a guild or lived in a guild city. He just did his thing by himself.

 

My theory? If you make some of the best gear players can get, it doesn't matter where you set up shop. If players want the best, they will seek you out, and will go out of their way to get to you.

 

I will say this however. While the crafting system is being built by the same people that made SWG, this game will be different in the fact, all the best resources are off world in very dangerous places. You are going to need other players to obtain the required resources and items to create everything.

 

My guess? You're going to have to join a guild that's capable of getting you what you need or watching your back while you get it yourself. This is a game that's going to require cooperation and teamwork to achieve goals.

 

There simply won't be a viable solo option.

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A division of Gorath Industries, LLC

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Also I don't think that all of it is set in stone. If I recall correctly from my months of lurking there was discussion about imports being independent from campaign type. For example Campaign Dregs 1 could have import with lower export while Dreg 2 no export and high import. It's all really up in the air now. 

I'd definitely like to see a demand for crafted goods, so I'm hoping for slightly more import over no import.

Personally,

 

I kinda like the idea of you can you're guild being dropped into a world with nothing. I like the idea of working quickly to aquire resources and items to craft weapons and armor from scratch.

 

I like the idea of having to quickly build a fortress or base of operations, before a rival guild shows up and wipes you out. The rush to build defensive and offensive structures that will set the tone for the rest of the campaign will be critical.

 

Something about having to start from scratch makes the game more interesting. It also means that good crafters will be in very high demand. A good team of crafters may be the difference between total victory or complete humiliation in the dregs.

 

I for one am hoping for zero import rule sets on high reward, high export campaign modes.

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Not exactly. The economy is pretty much self-contained for the most part. If compared to Eve Online, this would be like restricting 1.0 traders to sell anything to 0 sec guilds while allowing 1.0 traders to buy from them. This was introduced by the dev team because they want to prevent long term domination in guild oriented campaigns due to previous accumulation of wealth:

 

RuzFgMs.jpg

 

 

Nice work Qbs!

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  • 2 months later...

It's human nature for people to organize. Since the crowfall devs have left it open to players to define what that means, I would expect to see player run websites with crafting databases within a couple months of release. Even Ultima Online had a vendor database eventually and the technology is a lot easier to come by now. As a community though, it basically means that the systems of organization are open source instead of private. This provides competition and drives innovation. I think the devs understand how powerful player run economy can be for the lifespan and loyalty of a game. You will always appreciate something more if you feel like you had a part in its creation.

 

I believe the initial launch month will be a land grab. Most of the pre-existing organizations will be jockeying for customers and whoever comes out on top will hold a monopoly on trade until somebody improves on their concepts. It's actually a pretty literal representation of real life economies that have no regulation imposed.

 

My suggestion to people who aren't used to more gritty mmo's is to stay out of the crafting game if you're not serious about it. You'll be wasting a lot of time for yourself if you don't have a business plan and some kind of experience. It's much better to position yourself as a supplier than to try to compete as a seller.

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