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Burrow: Voxel Destruction Discussion


Dondagora
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Brought up recently, the devs now state that they haven't necessarily decided whether the burrow mechanic will be purely visual, meaning they clip our character under the ground and we then move like that, or whether they'll create an underground of the world to which Duelists can destroy to create their tunnels.

 

We should all discuss this now so that the devs understand the community's wants and concerns in regards to this, so that even should they not design to the letter to the community's suggestion, they may be able to take the reasons behind the community response into account as they build these mechanics.

 

Thoughts on this issue?

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I've suspected for a while that the original intention for the burrowing ability was simply an alternate presentation of stealth, possibly with an additional passwall effect.

 

The idea of a persistent tunneling / underground construction game sounds like fun but I'm not sure if it should be a priority or even a committed feature at all, unless it turns out to be a relatively easy development task relative to the amount of fun returned.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

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I assume they will burrow; we need complex player created tunnels deep below the earth! ^_^  

It`s a good stretch goal in my opinion since ACE have confirmed that under water combat won`t happen in CF.)

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Tunneling would probably open up a lot of possibilities regarding exploration, stronghold invasion, pitfalls, underground routes...

 

However, as you guys say, it would most likely require a lot of resources to implement correctly and could compromise performances.  :(

 

This tbh isnt even my biggest concern. What is a system when it's not getting used? It may be good for exploration but I can't imagine that digging tunnels are good in a fight. 

 

I agree that full fleshed out tunnel building is more fun then a fancy version of stealth but stealth is just more practicle from my point of view.

 

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I love you all.

 

 

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This tbh isnt even my biggest concern. What is a system when it's not getting used? It may be good for exploration but I can't imagine that digging tunnels are good in a fight. 

 

I agree that full fleshed out tunnel building is more fun then a fancy version of stealth but stealth is just more practicle from my point of view.

Well, Duelists aren't your typical archetype either since they're specialists and also since the game is being balanced round group activity. Well, to your point, we can work around it.

 

How about, then, a stick of dynamite or blackpowder bomb[classic black ball with a fuse]? A small, controlled explosive which the Duelist has access to which does a small AoE and a high amount of destruction within a small area. Thus, a method of digging tunnels while also having flavorful combat usefulness.

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To be honest I think collapsing mountain passes to raid a caravan better or create traps to explode the road beneath a caravan. Also tunneling under a wall and setting off a bomb under it would be one of the most common ways of getting into a castle if it was implemented so we would have all sorts of fun balancing to go with it. Overall I would prefer it to be the best siege class so as to make it more desired for specific tasks.

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it's all very cool, but making it super realistic it's just so much more work on these guys & I think it's not necessary. Realism sometimes makes for silly tedious work that in the end no1 wants to do. Where does it stop with the realistic burrowing & the sapping? Do we need to bring some wooden beams in the tunnels? Shall the defenders flood the tunnels with water or poison gas, or raise some cats?

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it's all very cool, but making it super realistic it's just so much more work on these guys & I think it's not necessary. Realism sometimes makes for silly tedious work that in the end no1 wants to do. Where does it stop with the realistic burrowing & the sapping? Do we need to bring some wooden beams in the tunnels? Shall the defenders flood the tunnels with water or poison gas, or raise some cats?

 

Water? Gas? You are not thinking creatively enough, friend.

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The ability to 'dig a tunnel beneath a castle wall, so that you can dig your way up into the courtyard and siege from within or to literally move mountains' was a selling point for myself and some of my friends. It is exciting and different. When I told my friends about Crowfall and showed them some early videos, they thought it was interesting. When I told them everything from the buildings to the terrain was destructible, they thought it was awesome. Making the world itself destructible, new gameplay is available: earthworks (moats, trenches, etc) around castles to change troop movements during sieges, pitfall traps, hideouts (little caves from which you can launch ambush attacks), secret passages, even discovery of hidden caverns with treasures or artifacts. The idea that we could have these abilities is a big part of what drew me to Crowfall.

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Well, Duelists aren't your typical archetype either since they're specialists and also since the game is being balanced round group activity. Well, to your point, we can work around it.

I think that is where most people mistake the Duelist. A Duel is not a fight 20v20. It is a fight 1v1 untill death, untill the better one wins. I know somebody will now cry out what I am doing in Crowfall in the first place but this is a topic for another day.

 

The Duelist should be a, well Duelist, being able to have a slight edge against everybody in a 1 on 1 situation with the right build and training. To balance that out he lacks in group combat easily being tossed around and CC'd.

 

Duelists are most worth, taking out the backline or key figures in a fight. Like commands or (right now) confessors. They dig under the frontline going behind the enemy crippling them until the main force can break through.

 

Skirmisher groups, gankers and sappers is the place for the Duelist. Not the front of armies clashing into one another.

 

*There might be a Promotion class that focusses solely on sapping or explosives and I am not addressing them here. Only the Dueling promotion.

Edited by IamMe
 

I AM ME!
I love you all.

 

 

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The ability to 'dig a tunnel beneath a castle wall, so that you can dig your way up into the courtyard and siege from within or to literally move mountains' was a selling point for myself and some of my friends. It is exciting and different. When I told my friends about Crowfall and showed them some early videos, they thought it was interesting. When I told them everything from the buildings to the terrain was destructible, they thought it was awesome. Making the world itself destructible, new gameplay is available: earthworks (moats, trenches, etc) around castles to change troop movements during sieges, pitfall traps, hideouts (little caves from which you can launch ambush attacks), secret passages, even discovery of hidden caverns with treasures or artifacts. The idea that we could have these abilities is a big part of what drew me to Crowfall.

While that all sounds great, I just don't see it being within scope for project like this. They've got a small team with a pretty small amount of money. On top of that they're already doing some pretty ambitious things in other places, server technology, physics based combat, etc.  

 

To put it into perspective it took the EverQuest Landmark team 4+ months to get caves into their already working voxelfarm engine. They're a bigger team and are more funded.

 

I'm not saying none of this will happen, just reign it in a bit so you don't ended up getting disappointed.

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As a pessimist, I never expect things to go my way. Terrain destruction had been specifically talked about by ACE since Kickstarter, it's still in the game FAQ. If ACE turns out to be just another developer that makes "campaign promises" and backs off once they get what they need, I won't be disappointed. It's what I've come to expect from the industry.

Edited by ZaphodBeeblebrox
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As a pessimist, I never expect things to go my way. Terrain destruction had been specifically talked about by ACE since Kickstarter, it's still in the game FAQ. If ACE turns out to be just another developer that makes "campaign promises" and backs off once they get what they need, I won't be disappointed. It's what I've come to expect from the industry.

Terrain destruction is the rectangle to burrowing and moat building's squares. It is the basis to having either of those, but the latter two are each their own systems built on top of it. Do expect to blow through the walls of keeps with siege weapons.

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Terrain destruction is the rectangle to burrowing and moat building's squares. It is the basis to having either of those, but the latter two are each their own systems built on top of it. Do expect to blow through the walls of keeps with siege weapons.

Still, the idea of burrowing works very well with the idea of destructible environment. It'd be a shame not to integrate this in some way.

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