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A contemplation for all SB veterans

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Posted (edited)

The irony of this thread is the OP is currently allied with the very Chinese he warned about on Magicbane lol

Edited by headlight

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On 3/12/2017 at 3:36 PM, headlight said:

The iron of this thread is the OP is currently allied with the very Chinese he warned about on Magicbane lol

If you can't beat em, join em... at least that's how some people operate.

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Just curious, are there any younger SB players out here or are most of you the older ones? I'm in my early 20's and when I used to play there were a few of us kids, but I never knew if there were more?

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It's a mix of old and young on magicbane. Of course the younger ones run most of it. Go stop by and say hi, see if anyone's still around: magicbane.com

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Posted (edited)

No other game has real war experience besides shadowbane players imho. I will be shocked if we do not run things to start. Trained instinct alone is so valuable. It took most of us years just to learn not to chase in gvg. There will be plenty of new players to absorb, and if we have better tactics and structure they will chose our guilds. Young players do not come into games with set infrastructure only veterans. Most MMO veterans will be dragon knight point farming POS that we will eat alive when tactics get complicated.   Bring on the lemmings I will kill them by the dozens

Edited by scipio

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23 hours ago, scipio said:

No other game has real war experience besides shadowbane players imho. I will be shocked if we do not run things to start. Trained instinct alone is so valuable. It took most of us years just to learn not to chase in gvg. There will be plenty of new players to absorb, and if we have better tactics and structure they will chose our guilds. Young players do not come into games with set infrastructure only veterans. Most MMO veterans will be dragon knight point farming POS that we will eat alive when tactics get complicated.   Bring on the lemmings I will kill them by the dozens

I think the guilds/alliances that moved from Shadowbane to Darkfall will have a major upper hand.

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On 11/5/2015 at 8:20 PM, chet said:

    The Shadowbane community is one comprised of a playerbase with an average age approaching thirty to forty, whose careers and real-life obligations often end up taking precedence over competitive gaming. Owing to this, Shadowbane players are at an inherent disadvantage time-wise when compared to newer generations of players, which is a potential issue for both individual players and groups of players interested in competitiveness in Crowfall. Dependent on the grind, players might be forced to devote more time than possible to maintain an even-footing grind-wise with groups or guilds made up of younger players. To combat this, it makes sense for Shadowbane veterans to collectively forge a series of alliances prior to the release of the game. Doing so would mitigate time constraints felt by the mostly adult playerbase, in addition to affording groups of players the manpower required for defense against attackers, and increasing guild longevity by way of staving off burn-out. The grind of a new game can be exceedingly difficult to keep up with; gigantic alliances from other titles could monopolize various aspects in-game.

 

  While the game is still a ways from being completed and openly playable to the masses, these considerations are important to ponder in the present rather than just the future; being caught off guard upon release would be problematic to a large percentage of the playerbase. Many guilds will find major difficulties attempting to combat the likely massive alliances constructed on the part of the collective players from other games. For instance, alliances in Eve Online have reached into the thousands and often easily into the hundreds. In Shadowbane, the release of the game was marked by massive alliances which are essentially the natural order of things in an open player vs. player game based on conquest and victory. Guilds or players who refused to take part ended up with a lack of ability to progress, or sieged off of the map itself. Therefore, Shadowbane guilds intent on playing Crowfall both casually and competitively should consider the benefits of the pre-emptive establishment of an intra-Shadowbane player alliance.

I think a game like this will attract mostly adults anyway. This article is partially related. Also, I like to think the fact that at 36 I've been doing this longer than some players have been alive is an advantage.

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Most younger post-WoW MMO players haven't played a real MMORPG with real PvP, guild warfare, and player/political/server consequences. The likes of pre-Trammel UO (or "Siege Perilous" UO), Asheron's Call's brutal "Darktide" server, or Shadowbane haven't been seen for time, except for I guess "Eve Online" which is an entirely different type of game. Even though I didn't consider DAoC a 'carebear game' due to its RvR, that RvR system was still a part of the regressive descent into decadent carebear linear "faction"-based meaningless PvP. If there were any real "Millennial" students of Gibbon, Nietzsche, and Spengler who witnessed the entire progression of the major MMORPGs, they could write their "Rise, Decline, and Fall of the PvP MMO." The process follows the same trajectory of the on-going and gradual attempted re-engineering of competitive sports, erosion of martial spirit, demasculinization, and decline of Tradition in general, as in it was dictated by market trends (capital) and the supposed "feelings" of the noncompetitive masses who cannot handle the natural aristocracy of the sword fostered by real PvP in a Machiavellian-Hobbesian virtual world. The nerds who need a comfortable, apolitical linear world of two factions with cute characters, safezones, and the safe simulation of "real PvP" in optional and predictable "battlegrounds" and "arenas" are like the AIDS Skrillexes of on-line gaming, screeching "white male!!" to fully disregard + exclude the "PK!!" and "griefer!!" oppressors who slammed the weak into lockers and took their lunch money. Catering to the rather anti-freedom preferences of this demographic could of course be justified for over a decade because of WoW's success in the marketplace. In a sense, then, Crowfall aims to be reactionary, hoping to return us to a freer and more natural past that was sacrificed for the glut of simulacra produced for the appetites of the dull, weak, and feminized masses. 

 

And if Crowfall isn't this, shelving the "massively merciless, play to crush" intention to make a few brony snowflakes happy, the game will suck.

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Posted (edited)

Glad to see you @managainsttime - missed your old Shadowbane novels/posts - I remember u from Mourning SB server.. `grin :)

 

Edited by mythx

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2017 at 0:22 PM, managainsttime said:

Most younger post-WoW MMO players haven't played a real MMORPG with real PvP, guild warfare, and player/political/server consequences. The likes of pre-Trammel UO (or "Siege Perilous" UO), Asheron's Call's brutal "Darktide" server, or Shadowbane haven't been seen for time, except for I guess "Eve Online" which is an entirely different type of game. Even though I didn't consider DAoC a 'carebear game' due to its RvR, that RvR system was still a part of the regressive descent into decadent carebear linear "faction"-based meaningless PvP. If there were any real "Millennial" students of Gibbon, Nietzsche, and Spengler who witnessed the entire progression of the major MMORPGs, they could write their "Rise, Decline, and Fall of the PvP MMO." The process follows the same trajectory of the on-going and gradual attempted re-engineering of competitive sports, erosion of martial spirit, demasculinization, and decline of Tradition in general, as in it was dictated by market trends (capital) and the supposed "feelings" of the noncompetitive masses who cannot handle the natural aristocracy of the sword fostered by real PvP in a Machiavellian-Hobbesian virtual world. The nerds who need a comfortable, apolitical linear world of two factions with cute characters, safezones, and the safe simulation of "real PvP" in optional and predictable "battlegrounds" and "arenas" are like the AIDS Skrillexes of on-line gaming, screeching "white male!!" to fully disregard + exclude the "PK!!" and "griefer!!" oppressors who slammed the weak into lockers and took their lunch money. Catering to the rather anti-freedom preferences of this demographic could of course be justified for over a decade because of WoW's success in the marketplace. In a sense, then, Crowfall aims to be reactionary, hoping to return us to a freer and more natural past that was sacrificed for the glut of simulacra produced for the appetites of the dull, weak, and feminized masses. 

 

And if Crowfall isn't this, shelving the "massively merciless, play to crush" intention to make a few brony snowflakes happy, the game will suck.

What's fascinating is that the really old school shadowbane players wanted crowfall to be more hardcore than it currently is, while the ones that couldn't thrive when shadowbane was at its most populated and later moved on to emulator servers and such and label themselves old school even though they aren't, are the same ones crying for safer friendly fire rules, easier to land attacks, and less emphasis on player skill.  Odd how that works. 

It's almost like some people with not very hardcore playstyles are trying to soften the game so that they can be considered to play the most hardcore ruleset the game has to offer.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

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Posted (edited)

I can assure u @VIKINGNAIL that he is a hardcore player who enjoy such pvp environment with friendly fire - I remember his guild from Mourning server in SB in 2004 when most pvers were busy with the new WoW release - especially the UO trammel type of players, VN who enjoyed PvE content and hate gank and inventory loot drop on death penalties. And they hated when their miners were ganked in UO when they were mining, because they lost some time progression and items due to open world PvP and sandbox elements.

I don`t think Dregs campaign setting will be hardcore enough compare to Dayz Standalone for instant - if u die u will spawn naked at the coast and we need full inventory drop on death in Dregs campaigns, and we need in my opinion a full friendly fire ruleset. Otherwise u can just zerg to your heart content without penalties with strength in numbers and all that crap wtihout FF in large scale combat events.

 

 

 

Edited by mythx

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2 minutes ago, mythx said:

I can assure u @VIKINGNAIL that he is a hardcore player who enjoy such pvp environment with friendly fire - I remember his guild from Mourning server in SB in 2004 when most pvers were busy with the new WoW release - especially the UO trammel type of players, VN who enjoyed PvE content and hate gank and inventory loot drop on death penalties. And they hated when their miners were ganked in UO when they were mining, because they lost some time progression and items due to open world PvP and sandbox elements.

I don`t think Dregs campaign setting will be hardcore enough compare to Dayz Standalone for instant - if u die u will spawn naked at the coast and we need full inventory drop on death in Dregs campaigns, and we need in my opinion a full fire friendly ruleset.

 

 

 

It's kind of weird how people think that if you didn't play shadowbane forever you aren't hardcore.  The game was slow pvp with terrible performance and a low skill-ceiling.  Those participating in roaming PvP in WoW or organized WSG leagues in vanilla, or Arena later on were doing something much more challenging and skillful.

At least since you play survival games you understand the benefit of more hardcore rulesets.  I think when crowfall gets closer to release and people start talking about it more on twitch and mmorpg websites you are going to see survival game and other pvpers check crowfall out, and as it stands now their reaction will probably be that the game is too soft. 

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Posted (edited)

But you compare SB to the WoW mmo - and obviously you had the WoW experience with your background story related to gaming. I started at the beginning since I am 41 years old with Ultima Online in 96 or 97 I don`t remember exact date - and it was the first mmo with taming! :) until ARK used it some years ago. And Gordon Walton divided the world ruleset to Felluca & Trammel in the end - probably not his own decision, but the company as whole back in the days. And Ark has a large player base too with sometimes 60k daily players in the weekend, but taming is a horrific feature related to world PvP and balancing hence why I don`t enjoy that game even though you have world pvp.

I`m just saying that some sort of Friendly fire is important, because otherwise it will be too easy to dominate a campaign with large amount of guild members, or a huge alliances without any massive penalties related to combat and castle siege mechanics.  And I am not saying it will stop guilds from recruiting or creating an alliance, but if the combat scale is large enough with hundreds of players on each side of the battle - it`s a good idea to implement friendly fire. But some of the most experience guilds are so coordinated that the friendly fire won`t be the only adjustment in a campaign related to that particular topic. @jtoddcoleman need some sort of balance related to numbers in 1 nation/guild, and additional rulesets to give credits for those small elite type of guilds who value skills and more selective in their recruiting. In SB nations were limited indeed and somewhat balanced, but they really need to have a good plan to deal with mindless zerg guilds like Goons. At least in EvE online or Star Citizen, hehe. :D 

Edited by mythx

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Posted (edited)

At least in SB they had shadow Goons, and after a quick research and understanding, they were more hardcore than the rest of the Goon guilds you see in other games like EvE or Star Citizen. 

When I say hardcore I don`t mean you need a 5 years package deal/experience in shadowbane to be included in that club @VIKINGNAIL, but it`s a huge difference among the players bases in different MMO`s today related to open world PvP, or limited PvP versions, or no pvp at all which you see in tripple A titles like The Elder Scrolls Online with very limited PvP rulesets until you hit end game, and it`s a huge time sink until you can compete in PvP with their end game content.

Felluca was a hardcore ruleset open world PvP with penalties on death indeed, and u could lose your house key or being looted by an enemy back in the days in UO.

Trammel was not so much it was PvE focused world with very limited options for world PvP. It has nothing to do with world of Warcraft or Shadowbane at all in my opinion the word use or term hardcore related to gaming and mmo`s. I mention Ultima Online, because that was the first massive mmo and the game divided the player base with different world rulesets, I know we had muds etc, but it`s just different and text based like planetarion. :)

Edited by mythx

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32 minutes ago, mythx said:

At least in SB they had shadow Goons, and after a quick research and understanding, they were more hardcore than the rest of the Goon guilds you see in other games like EvE or Star Citizen. 

When I say hardcore I don`t mean you need a 5 years package deal/experience in shadowbane to be included in that club @VIKINGNAIL, but it`s a huge difference among the players bases in different MMO`s today related to open world PvP, or limited PvP versions, or no pvp at all which you see in tripple A titles like The Elder Scrolls Online with very limited PvP rulesets until you hit end game, and it`s a huge time sink until you can compete in PvP with their end game content.

Felluca was a hardcore ruleset open world PvP with penalties on death indeed, and u could lose your house key or being looted by an enemy back in the days in UO.

Trammel was not so much it was PvE focused world with very limited options for world PvP. It has nothing to do with world of Warcraft or Shadowbane at all in my opinion the word use or term hardcore related to gaming and mmo`s. I mention Ultima Online, because that was the first massive mmo and the game divided the player base with different world rulesets, I know we had muds etc, but it`s just different and text based like planetarion. :)

Well the goons have deteriorated from their AOL trolling days.  They got weaker and weaker and heck, we even had a cluster of goons try to venture into CF and then peace out. 

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7 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Well the goons have deteriorated from their AOL trolling days.  They got weaker and weaker and heck, we even had a cluster of goons try to venture into CF and then peace out. 

Yeah mostly PvE players with similar mindset, but they are sometimes mentioned in mmos. And they usually need heavy forum moduration to push them away, or they get naturally less interested in a project. :D

 

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16 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

It's kind of weird how people think that if you didn't play shadowbane forever you aren't hardcore. 

It's weird how one person who admittedly played for 6 weeks thinks he knows more than the people who played the same six weeks - and for years afterwards.

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5 hours ago, vandarr said:

It's weird how one person who admittedly played for 6 weeks thinks he knows more than the people who played the same six weeks - and for years afterwards.

Well I don't know where this 6 week number came from, but I played it for months, and then most of the population quit the game because it was not a good game.  The end.

It's weird how the people that dominated it when it was most populated were able to go on and find success in many other more competitive games, while the ones that glorified the game as some pvp masterpiece were never able to excel in more competitive games.  Weird...

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Posted (edited)
On 6/17/2017 at 1:26 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

What's fascinating is that the really old school shadowbane players wanted crowfall to be more hardcore than it currently is, while the ones that couldn't thrive when shadowbane was at its most populated and later moved on to emulator servers and such and label themselves old school even though they aren't, are the same ones crying for safer friendly fire rules, easier to land attacks, and less emphasis on player skill.  Odd how that works. 

It's almost like some people with not very hardcore playstyles are trying to soften the game so that they can be considered to play the most hardcore ruleset the game has to offer.

Or maybe it has to do with the fact that those things you listed were a defining feature of Shadowbane and they want to play a game similar to Shadowbane.

Edited by Colest

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