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A contemplation for all SB veterans

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Yea, the 20-40 player SB guilds are most likely not going to cut it. The probelm is after more than a decade of poorly made socks talking and backstabbing we all pretty much hate each other. It would take some serious setting aside of egos and a charismatic leader to bring us all together.

I find it to be quite the opposite.

 

I enjoy playing with most the people who played shadowbane. We all have the same addiction and affliction.

 

Ive wound up playing with more of my sb enemies lately than I have sb allies.

 

Telling stories and all is well and good but its also fun hearing the same story remembered from the opposite side.

Edited by Reigngod

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I personally am in my 30s, I am a large SB veteran and can agree that I even once hated most SB player base. But I also have a very fond respect for that player base. Simply because they are Veterans. They have been through the trials of fire and then some. They know strategies that work and ones that don't. They even know a few tricks to pull. That being said, this game is not SB. It may have many familiar characteristics, but it will not be the same in any way. Any smart person will see this. So yes alliances will be made, but any smart gamer knows this and will likely put this into play.

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I'll be there just to hear 100 people shoved in one channel letting their personalities clash. I can just imagine some nerd rage, ventrillo key clicks, VN talking about beta, Saal talking about being 10 on live, Primal talking about seeing a 20k vag, Drogenn trolling people in channel, Polish people with their heavy accents, Manshoon calling everyone Dissent pigs, Khan calling Australians brits with downs, Ween rapping and preaching that 3rd coast, while Snax cackles.

That would be glorious.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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Yea, the 20-40 player SB guilds are most likely not going to cut it. The probelm is after more than a decade of poorly made socks talking and backstabbing we all pretty much hate each other. It would take some serious setting aside of egos and a charismatic leader to bring us all together.

 

:)

 

I know guys who would get angry just *thinking* about playing with some of you jerks, a decade later. Thems be some deep wounds. Those fragile 20 year old egos...

Edited by alestorm

Alestorm MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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It always catches me off guard when Chet falls out of character. That reasonable tone from his forum persona is a bit like dipping a pickle in peanut butter. No phallic metaphor intended, as far as you know.

 

But ya, we're older. Less time. More commitments, etc. All fair points. There will obviously be fairly large SB centric alliances where the right forces move us in that direction. It all just depends on the relative size of guilds in these campaigns. I think that will all shake out naturally.

 

And hey, find a silver lining. Some of us may be able to retire in the next few years and have even more time to P2C. 

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It always catches me off guard when Chet falls out of character. That reasonable tone from his forum persona is a bit like dipping a pickle in peanut butter. No phallic metaphor intended, as far as you know.

 

But ya, we're older. Less time. More commitments, etc. All fair points. There will obviously be fairly large SB centric alliances where the right forces move us in that direction. It all just depends on the relative size of guilds in these campaigns. I think that will all shake out naturally.

 

And hey, find a silver lining. Some of us may be able to retire in the next few years and have even more time to P2C. 

 

He's pretty normal in voice chat. Wouldn't really guess they were the same person if you didn't know better.


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It always catches me off guard when Chet falls out of character. That reasonable tone from his forum persona is a bit like dipping a pickle in peanut butter. No phallic metaphor intended, as far as you know.

 

But ya, we're older. Less time. More commitments, etc. All fair points. There will obviously be fairly large SB centric alliances where the right forces move us in that direction. It all just depends on the relative size of guilds in these campaigns. I think that will all shake out naturally.

 

And hey, find a silver lining. Some of us may be able to retire in the next few years and have even more time to P2C.

Yeah those retirement days will be the poorly made sockse, hopefully they'll invent a decent brain interface soon enough to combat our failing motor skills, then it will be P2C until death


Member of The BlackHand Order

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Honestly if your guild is still around but not recruiting new members or playing new games, CF is going to be harsh to do without allies.  I'm 36, married, work 60 hour weeks, have 74 employees, a 2 year old (the similarities between the 2 are astounding sometimes) and not enough time for gaming - if I get one night a week that's good.  That being said, I spend time on the oversight and management of the guild and try to make sure we're playing games together and recruiting new members as we go (more of that than actual gaming, fallout 4 notwithstanding).

 

We have around 30 active players in about 6 games and another 20-30 who will show up for a bit and disappear after a couple months when a big release hits.  At primetime if we have 12-15 people on at once in the same game, that's a decent showing.  Sometimes we'll have 20+, but that's right as the game releases and everyone has time off.  We've picked up players from SB as we've moved from game to game and bumped into them, and picked up a few quality players in every game we played long enough to recruit in (WoW, SWTOR, AA, etc).  We've kept the forums and website updated, we moved comms from vent to mumble to gamevox, and everyone still logs in to comms just to hand out and talk and play games together when they have time - even if there isn't a "focus" game to play at the moment.  At any time you can probably find guys playing SMITE, Rocket League, D3, SWTOR, AA or just sitting in channel talking while they work from home or use the interwebz.  I can't remember a day in the last year when we didn't have at least 8 people in mumble (or gamevox now) even if they were just in the AFK channel.

We have a facebook group, voxer chat, slack and a facebook page and we've done local meetups, a guild cruise (10 gamers on a cruise ship, drunk, is entertaining), had a wine tour and 3 weddings in the last 5 years. 

 

We're small, but we're not stagnant.  Keeping a small guild running takes time and effort, because every member you lose to RL hurts much more than a guild with 100 players who loses 1 and replaces it with 3, because that member had a job and a purpose that effects everyone else still playing that much more, and it starts the domino effect of everyone dropping off.

 

The massive zerg guilds who play multiple games and have 100+ members that follow them around from game to game as they get released are going to be an issue. Yes they mass quit and disappear to another game as soon as it releases, but for the first few months of a game they bring pain to smaller guilds.  XoO, Warrior Poets, Oran'Thul, and ForestCrow all do this and of their 100 members, maybe 10-15 are actual quality players with a clue.  The rest are sheep feeding the engine of those top tier players in the guild, following the herd hoping for some recognition of their "efforts" for the "team".  They don't care if their members are unpleasant people that everyone hates in comms, they don't care if they recruit spies, they don't care if they spam invite players at the starting zone - as long as they show up to fight it's all good. 

 

They'll even truce with each other and double or triple the zerg rush to win if it gets them more members and more youtube viewers because the leaders directly benefit from a massive sheeple base by the structure of the guild. 

 

I think honestly the SB guilds will have to suck it up and form some uneasy alliances to survive the first few campaigns (till the zergs move on).  it should be interesting to watch.  Game mechanics will be the final deciding factor of just how big a guild or alliance needs to be to make it.

Edited by goros

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Yea, the 20-40 player SB guilds are most likely not going to cut it. The probelm is after more than a decade of poorly made socks talking and backstabbing we all pretty much hate each other. It would take some serious setting aside of egos and a charismatic leader to bring us all together.

honestly, western guilds couldnt get their poorly made socks together in SB during their "prime hardcore" years. You guys mostly quibbled and backstabbed until 90% of the mines/castles were owned by the hive mind CN and Dokdo KR. That being said, I found that small highly organized groups of players that had been playing with each other for years could do just fine. I have a feeling that will be the case here as well on either the FFA inner world or the faction/world. I predict the poorly made socks show zerg guilds will likely spend most of their time on the tier just outside the FFA tier.

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Honestly if your guild is still around but not recruiting new members or playing new games, CF is going to be harsh to do without allies.  I'm 36, married, work 60 hour weeks, have 74 employees, a 2 year old (the similarities between the 2 are astounding sometimes) and not enough time for gaming - if I get one night a week that's good.  That being said, I spend time on the oversight and management of the guild and try to make sure we're playing games together and recruiting new members as we go (more of that than actual gaming, fallout 4 notwithstanding).

 

We have around 30 active players in about 6 games and another 20-30 who will show up for a bit and disappear after a couple months when a big release hits.  At primetime if we have 12-15 people on at once in the same game, that's a decent showing.  Sometimes we'll have 20+, but that's right as the game releases and everyone has time off.  We've picked up players from SB as we've moved from game to game and bumped into them, and picked up a few quality players in every game we played long enough to recruit in (WoW, SWTOR, AA, etc).  We've kept the forums and website updated, we moved comms from vent to mumble to gamevox, and everyone still logs in to comms just to hand out and talk and play games together when they have time - even if there isn't a "focus" game to play at the moment.  At any time you can probably find guys playing SMITE, Rocket League, D3, SWTOR, AA or just sitting in channel talking while they work from home or use the interwebz.  I can't remember a day in the last year when we didn't have at least 8 people in mumble (or gamevox now) even if they were just in the AFK channel.

We have a facebook group, voxer chat, slack and a facebook page and we've done local meetups, a guild cruise (10 gamers on a cruise ship, drunk, is entertaining), had a wine tour and 3 weddings in the last 5 years. 

 

We're small, but we're not stagnant.  Keeping a small guild running takes time and effort, because every member you lose to RL hurts much more than a guild with 100 players who loses 1 and replaces it with 3, because that member had a job and a purpose that effects everyone else still playing that much more, and it starts the domino effect of everyone dropping off.

 

The massive zerg guilds who play multiple games and have 100+ members that follow them around from game to game as they get released are going to be an issue. Yes they mass quit and disappear to another game as soon as it releases, but for the first few months of a game they bring pain to smaller guilds.  XoO, Warrior Poets, Oran'Thul, and ForestCrow all do this and of their 100 members, maybe 10-15 are actual quality players with a clue.  The rest are sheep feeding the engine of those top tier players in the guild, following the herd hoping for some recognition of their "efforts" for the "team".  They don't care if their members are unpleasant people that everyone hates in comms, they don't care if they recruit spies, they don't care if they spam invite players at the starting zone - as long as they show up to fight it's all good. 

 

They'll even truce with each other and double or triple the zerg rush to win if it gets them more members and more youtube viewers because the leaders directly benefit from a massive sheeple base by the structure of the guild. 

 

I think honestly the SB guilds will have to suck it up and form some uneasy alliances to survive the first few campaigns (till the zergs move on).  it should be interesting to watch.  Game mechanics will be the final deciding factor of just how big a guild or alliance needs to be to make it.

 

Can you imagine how many of those zerglings will continue playing once they get smoked and full looted? Ive been collecting tears and sob stories along with hate mail from XOO nubs for the past decade. I don't think its going to change now. Only thing different now is that I'm making money IRL while doing it.

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Actually, any time NA worked together (and EU), CN was routed. The problem realistically was that NA/EU had no incentive to get along. Eventually, egos led to the disintegration of alliances. CN didn't defeat NA/EU as much as they defeated themselves. They got tired of working together and would rather kill each other than the same skill-less zerg over and over again.

 

Had NA/EU gotten along and had true dedication, they would have wiped every CN city off the map, with the exception of asian WoO's.

 

Let's not forget the spineless and skill-less NA/EU nations who would rather play in a CN alliance rather than just take a beating. Those players were the ones who would turn around and give CN a tree just to boost their numbers. Then they would have no one left to fight, turn on their CN overlords, and then get hammered out of existence when their boredom reached maximum stagnation.

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I hate to say it...But i totally agree with Chet on this one.  Assisting each other against zerg threats would be a good idea, but guilds have their own identity, and they aren't, and shouldn't, give it up to form some huge alliance.

 

There are other things to consider though.  Don't take this as me advocating for one route over another (I have concerns that this would work in any form), but a simple "confederation" is likely to come with a bunch of other problems.  For example:

 

1. What recourse does the larger group have if one guild "breaks ranks"? Confederations that are too loose will fall apart the moment this happens.  Confederations that are too tight will strangle guild autonomy and push people out. (not to mention the leadership power struggles, now you have an inner council of 15-20 guild leaders???)

 

2. What does this actually look like, a mutual defense pact? A "super-nation" with a bunch of "sub-nations"? If everyone gets to maintain their own style then what's the guarantee that anyone will actually come when it's time? Presumably anyone who's intelligent will be looking to divide the group (paying this guild off, offering amnesty to that guild, dividing the spoils in advance, etc).

 

3. So now instead of my 15 man guild full of old farts we have a 100 man guild full of old farts. Young blood is needed regardless.  Among our biggest advantages will be to help the "new wave" understand what to actually expect here.  For example, my feeling is that, unless I want to uninstall my career, the most useful I'll be is a warm body in a siege and some kind of leadership advisor.  Expecting any more engagement than that is unrealistic.

 

I'm not sure what the appropriate path is to solve all of these things, but what I can say (and this is where I resoundingly agree with Chet) is that we will all have to modify our thinking dramatically not just on these issues but many others as well.


Your milkshake lures all the fine folks to the yard. Verily, it is better than mine. Surely it is better than mine. Would you teach me, or would you levy a fee? - Integ

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honestly, western guilds couldnt get their poorly made socks together in SB during their "prime hardcore" years. You guys mostly quibbled and backstabbed until 90% of the mines/castles were owned by the hive mind CN and Dokdo KR. That being said, I found that small highly organized groups of players that had been playing with each other for years could do just fine. I have a feeling that will be the case here as well on either the FFA inner world or the faction/world. I predict the poorly made socks show zerg guilds will likely spend most of their time on the tier just outside the FFA tier.

 

The fact that you're referring to the situation with "CN" as evidence of your assertion that western guilds didn't have their poorly made socks together tells me that you basically started playing long after most of them were already gone :P.


Your milkshake lures all the fine folks to the yard. Verily, it is better than mine. Surely it is better than mine. Would you teach me, or would you levy a fee? - Integ

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Going to have to disagree with this one. So-called Western guilds did quite well in individual banes over 'castles' (I have to question anything which uses that term in the context of SB btw), and during periods when they had even numbers, also prevailed quite often. In individual fights in the field, a single group from a good quality western guild could take 3-5 groups of CN and to a lesser extent KR. I know of a case where 3 CoT fought and wiped 30 CN, and would have killed another 30 if they hadn't been fighting so long their buffs dropped...even numbers, it's not even a contest.

 

That said, as others have remarked, it is likely not going to be even numbers. It may not even the same order of magnitude. Not only are a lot of us old, busy and have grudges that have persisted for a decade and a half, CF is not tab-targeting - twitch skill is going to be a factor as well. THAT said, I've played games since SB with SB vets, and when they aren't shooting themselves in the foot or getting in one another's way, they do very very well. There hasn't been a game like CF since SB, and I can't help but feeling good about our chances. CF is the type of game where combat experience over the course of a long campaign, where politics comes into play, will actually matter.

 

Couple final random points. I imagine, though I do not have data on this (ACE must) that there are a high number of SB vets backing CF. I also expect the same would be true for those hitting the ground running at launch, who have VIP accounts and so on. We're also not going to pack it up at the first sign of trouble, or rage quit when we lose our poorly made socks. We're talking about hardcore PvPers who have lost 3 months work in a day. Of the problems SB players face, being intimidated or discouraged are not among them.

 

THAT said, there are real logistics involved which are not in our favor. These can be compensated for, but they would require a level of cooperation or coordination that might be too difficult for the character of many SB vets. I know some who are looking at CF as a long-awaited opportunity to settle old scores... the quibbling and backstabbing mentioned might be the least of it.

 

Still think, even numbers, or even in the ballpark, we would dominate. Given the mechanics involved with how CW's will work, this may be easy, or impossible to orchestrate. There is still a lot that could be done though, when it comes to the EKs, crafting, resources and to be honest, theorycrafting and builds/spec group compositions. A lot of SB players guarded their builds, group comps or tactics like they were state secrets...much could be done to make sure Shadowbane's vets take advantage of their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses, as a group.

 

honestly, western guilds couldnt get their poorly made socks together in SB during their "prime hardcore" years. You guys mostly quibbled and backstabbed until 90% of the mines/castles were owned by the hive mind CN and Dokdo KR. That being said, I found that small highly organized groups of players that had been playing with each other for years could do just fine. I have a feeling that will be the case here as well on either the FFA inner world or the faction/world. I predict the poorly made socks show zerg guilds will likely spend most of their time on the tier just outside the FFA tier.

 

 

The fact that you're referring to the situation with "CN" as evidence of your assertion that western guilds didn't have their poorly made socks together tells me that you basically started playing long after most of them were already gone :P.

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I am not moving a muscle until Protonix weighs in...

 

Yet in reality it would never be an alliance, more like a unstable Union of mutual distrust and backstabbing for resources while agreeing to forgo todays intermural fight for an agreed upon chance to independently push out a pretender?  

Power vacuums to be quickly filled with dead vessels and love...

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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